Dutch in Indonesia vs Spanish in the Philippines

Language Critic   Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:33 pm GMT
Indonesia: old ties

People can sometimes use Dutch to get by in unexpected places. One of those places is Indonesia. Some older Indonesians still speak Dutch, but even the younger generation is interested in the language. University students, for example law students, are often required to study Dutch texts. Many universities in Indonesia therefore offer courses in Dutch as a source or occupational language. Students and other interested parties can enrol in general Dutch courses at various educational centres, the most important of which is the Erasmus Language Centre (ETC) in Jakarta. Each year, some 1500 to 2000 students take Dutch courses there.

http://taalunieversum.org/en/dutch_worldwide/

The state of Spanish today in the Philippines

Spanish ceased to be an official language and a required subject in college in 1987 during the Cory Aquino Administration. It is still spoken and maintained by mestizo families, and many Filipinos, even during the 60s and 70s, grew up with Spanish being their first and primary language, even before they learned to speak Tagalog or English. Speakers are typically, but not always, the 'elite'. Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo is a member of the Philippine Academy of the Spanish Language. Many of the older people speak it well in Zamboanga where the general population speak the creole, Chavacano.

The propagation and/or imposition of Spanish as an official language is still in heavy dispute. On one side, much of the history and culture is embedded in the language. There are an estimated 13 million manuscripts from the 16th century to 1898 which include government documents, economics, trade disputes, legal matters, patriotic material, religious material, registrations etc. There is a demand for Spanish proficiency and translation in Philippine history.

On the other side, Spanish is accused by some as representing colonization and has less relevance than English for practical usage or Filipino in terms of nationalism. Certain advocates maintain that Spanish was used by the first Filipino patriots. For example, Spanish was used to write the country's first constitution, Constitución Política de Malolos, Noli Me Tangere, the original national anthem, nationalistic propaganda material,etc and thus should be considered a national language. Philippine nationalism was first propagated in the Spanish language.

Manila is home to the main East Asian branch of the Instituto Cervantes, the Spanish government's official overseas institute for the promotion of Spanish language and Latino American culture. The Spanish language enjoys popularity as a language of choice for learning a foreign language among Filipinos.

http://www.indopedia.org/Spanish_in_the_Philippines.html

Pick your choice which language is in better shape in their respective former possessions.
Observer   Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:40 pm GMT
Dutch because Indonesia is a special partner of Nederlandse Taalunie or Dutch Language Union while the Philippines ceased to be a member of La Hispanidad.
Franco   Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:57 pm GMT
Philippines is associated member of Ibero-American summits:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Cumbre_Iberoamericana.png
Orang   Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:17 pm GMT
I'm Indonesian and I learned a little bit of Dutch from my grandfather, but my generation doesn't speak it.

We do have numerous loanwords from Dutch though. E.g.

kulkas = refrigerator

handuk = towel

sətel = adjust, set

Marət =March
Juni = June
Agustus = August

The ending -si (Dutch -tie) as the equivalent of -tion in English
seksi = section
opərasi = operation
indikasi = indication
aksi = action

etc.
Matematik   Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:36 pm GMT
Interestingly, the Dutch derived "-si" ending is present in Malay too.
Jdc   Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:47 am GMT
Its definitely Spanish in the Philippines!

Why? Filipino language has 5,000+ loanwords from Spanish, and 40-50% of informal conversation consist of Spanish vocabulary.

Chavacano de Zamboanga is a language in Southwest mindanao which is the mother tongue of atleast 1,000,000 inhabitant of Zamboanga provinces and nearby areas. The latter is mutually intelligible to Spanish speaker, atleast 60-65%. The major difference of Chavacano language and spanish is the grammar and speech that derived from Visayan language, thats why it is only classified as a creole language.

Traditions, culture, and religion (Roman Catholisism) are the main facts that actually differ the Philippines from Indonesia on how they adapt the rules of western in this asia-pacific region.

Filipino language also adapt the use of suffix of Spanish (as well as English) -cion or -tion:

Action in filipino> action or aksyon (in filipino spelling variant)
Speculation in filipino> espekulasyon
Inspection > inspeksyon
and many others...

in filipino spelling variant, they use the suffix -syon as a standard change for -cion and -tion.
El Zorro   Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:00 am GMT
Si, pero lo más importante es LA ECONOMIA.

El Gobierno de Filipinas quiere volver a instaurar el español en este país.

En una primera fase se esta enseñando español en algunos colegios. En la segunda fase quiere que sea OBLIGATORIO en todos los colegios del pais, como en Brasil.

Y esto no lo hacen por amor a España, ni porque se han dado cuenta que foneticamente y gramaticalmente es MUY FACIL para ellos. .

Lo estan haciendo porque es la SEGUNDA LENGUA ECONOMICA DEL MUNDO. Solo por eso.

Despues se daran cuenta que para ellos es mas facil el español que el ingles tanto fonetica como gramaticalmente. Pueden estudiar español y tener un buen nivel en 1 o 2 años.

Tambien se darán cuenta que si quieren pueden pertenecer a una familia, la hispana, de unos 500 millones de personas tanto por historia, como por nombre, cultura y religion. Ya se estan dando cuenta los filipinos que viven en California. Se encuentran mas a gusto con los latinos que con los anglos.

En cambio, NUNCA perteneceran a la familia anglosajona aunque hablen un ingles perfecto. A esa familia solo pertenecen los WASP. Es decir los blancos de USA, UK, Canada, Australia y NZ. Nada mas.


El holandes, en cambio, es una lengua hablada por unos 25 millones de personas en el mundo y economicamente no esta entre las 10 primeras. Por eso los indonesios no lo van a estudiar, al menos, la mayor parte de la poblacion.
Jdc   Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:15 am GMT
El zorro>>hi!

Im sorry to tell you, I cant understand you so well, would you have the time to translate it on English so that we could exchange our thoughts very well. Gracias!!
El Zorro   Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:01 am GMT
Hi jdc,

I don't know if you are from Philippines.

I said several important points:

The Philippine Government wants to make Spanish compulsory at school, like in Brazil because Spanish is now the second economic language. Not for love to the Spanish language or other things. Always the economy...

The Philippine Government know that in a global World, to speak English and Spanish is very useful. They can be the economic bridge between the Americas and Asia and it is very, very important to have this role.

When, all people study Spanish there, they will know that Spanish is very easy for them grammatically and phonetically. They can study Spanish in 1 or 2 years. At least, a basic Spanish.

Besides, Philippine people can be, if they want, in the Spanish family (a family of 500 million people) because of the culture, name, history and religion.

For example, people from Philippines living in California prefer to be with latinos than with Anglos. They take into account that they have a lot in common with latinos when they are in USA, Spain or a Latin American country.

Philippine people NEVER will be in the Anglosaxon family. Only white people from USA, UK, Canada, Australia and NZ belong to this family. No one more.
Matematik   Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:44 am GMT
<<For example, people from Philippines living in California prefer to be with latinos than with Anglos.>>

I've always found it interesting how so many nations hate Anglos, yet they all flock to their countries, namely the UK, Australia and US. Just shows you are brainless a lot of these untermensch really are.
Guest12345   Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:20 am GMT
"Just shows you are brainless a lot of these untermensch really are."


Not really. It is a question of feelings, culture, race, religion, way of life, etc.

English is the language of WASP (White Anglosaxon and Protestant) people. WASP Americans invented that idea. At this moment this idea is against the same English language.

WASP people will be a minority in USA in less than ten years. English language will be weaker in the same United States and Canada.

People from other races, languages, religions, etc are not comfortable with "English language" because is the language of the WASP.

Americans invented this idea. They are guilty of this bad marketing.