Garzón suspended - there is future yet for Europe

PC is crumbling   Fri May 14, 2010 10:34 pm GMT
Garzón, Zapatero's own clown/judge/political agitator has been suspended for attempting to stain Franco's legacy with left wing filth.

What do you think of this development?

I think it is great for the future of Europe. The left wing dribble has to come to an end, the right has finally decided that enough is enough. At the next election Spain, like a whole host of European countries, is obviously headed for a turn back to the right.

Garzón, hopefully, will be incarcelated.

Although, we shouldn't get too upset about him, afterall, he is a clown. Clowns are allowed to behave in a ridiculous fashion.
Penetra   Sat May 15, 2010 3:06 am GMT
Good news. Left wing in Spain must accept once and of all who won the Civil War in 1936 (a hint: they did not).
+   Sat May 15, 2010 3:46 am GMT
Gen. Franco was an unimpressive little man, a rather stereotypical ugly Spic midget, but he loved his country and I think his country didn't dislike him that much.

When he was ousted from power in 1969 French president De Gaulle, who had built his carrier upon opposition to all fascist dictatorships, went to Spain to pay tribute to Gen. Franco.

This is very strange. No one knows what they said to each other.
-   Sat May 15, 2010 4:12 am GMT
They carried the conversation in French or Spanish?
PARISIEN   Sat May 15, 2010 12:28 pm GMT
Lugo   Sat May 15, 2010 4:32 pm GMT
They carried the conversation in French or Spanish?

-
In Gallego, during Franco's regime, Catalan and Basque were forbidden, but Gallego was promoted.
Baldewin   Sat May 15, 2010 4:35 pm GMT
During the Franco regime culture sadly suffered a blow, as in most fascist regimes apparently. For instance, 91% of the Spaniards claimed never visiting a library. The only 'artistic' thing that got promoted was the film industry, but this for propaganda purposes but nationally as internationally.
One of the things that WAS better under Franco, was the safety and also the employment rate. Crime is five times higher than it was under Franco in Spain today.
Baldewin   Sat May 15, 2010 4:40 pm GMT
but=both*
Mallorquí   Sat May 15, 2010 5:35 pm GMT
Under Franco's regime culture improved greatly. For first time in Spanish history a middle class appeared and their sons had the opportunity to attend to Univeristies. Today's Spanish democracy still relies on the middle class created by Franco, but poverty provoked by the socialists (unemployment rate is about 20%) represents a big threat. Without middle class there is no democracy possible. That's the reason why in South America democracies are only hidden dictatorships: Venezuela, Cuba, Bolivia, etc.
Baldewin   Sat May 15, 2010 6:05 pm GMT
Maybe it improved later, thanks to that middle class, but during the regime itself there wasn't much culture. Still, materially the life of the average Spaniard improved greatly.
Penetra   Sat May 15, 2010 9:25 pm GMT
It depends what you call culture. If culture is Almodovar's movies about transvestites and homosexuals and things like that, surely under Franco's regime there was no culture, but if we consider culture the access of citizens to better education, then culture improved. Before Franco more than 50% of Spaniards were illiterate. By the way, there can't be improvement of culture without better material conditions. People who are starving have better things to care for than reading books. And Franco didn't forbid reading books, on the contrary, you could read Marx's works without any problem for example whereas in Germany for example selling Mein Kampf was and is still forbidden. Only works that attacked directly Franco's authority were banned, but censorship of books was rare , specially since 1960 when Franco's regime became quite lenient in order to attract foreign tourism and keep reasonably good relations with democratic Europe.
PARISIEN   Sat May 15, 2010 11:56 pm GMT
<< If culture is Almodovar's movies about transvestites and homosexuals and things like that, surely under Franco's regime there was no culture >>

-- J'approuve. Les meilleurs films espagnols ont été faits sous Franco. Connaissez-vous 'El Verdugo', fait par le cinéaste Berlanga vers 1962 ? Un indépassable chef-d'oeuvre d'humour sinistre, un des plus grands films de tous les temps. Le gouvernement de Franco n'en était pas enchanté mais ne l'a pas censuré.

L'Espagne monarchique/parlementaire d'après-1975 n'a rien produit de comparable en qualité.
Garçon   Sun May 16, 2010 3:14 am GMT
Some official titles General Franco had after he won the Spanish Civil War, some are quite funny:


"Su Excelencia el Jefe de Estado" ("His Excellency the Head of State")


"Caudillo de España" ("the Leader of Spain")



"el Caudillo de la Última Cruzada y de la Hispanidad" ("the Leader of the Last Crusade and of the Hispanic World")


"el Caudillo de la Guerra de Liberación contra el Comunismo y sus Cómplices" ("the Leader of the War of Liberation Against Communism and Its Accomplices")
Baldewin   Sun May 16, 2010 2:35 pm GMT
The film industry was indeed stimulated under Franco. Still, much of the other arts were neglected. The great Spanish painters for instance their works are pre-Franco. However, it's true that post-Franco isn't characterized as a cultural Golden Age neither, but we're all suffering from decadence. I also have the impression that culture used to be endlessly better one century ago, even though quality of life sucked.
Mais, en tout cas, je vous remercie pour la recommendation, PARISIEN.
joolsey   Sun May 16, 2010 10:29 pm GMT
Hang on Baldewin,

let's not get carried away and start claiming that Franco's post civil war policy (until at least the mid-50s) was conducive to prosperity. In many ways, Franco belatedly stumbled The first part of his reign was economically based on autarky, echoing Primo de Rivera's approach in the 1920s; hardly great progress! It was only for the later influence of technocrats who struggled to impress upon Franco an embrace of quasi-Anglo Saxon economic liberalism (but without the concommitant social and individual liberties of course!) that stopped Franco taking Spain over the cliff. Eisenhower's relaxation of the West's ostracization towards Franco in the context of the Cold War was also a saving grace.

I mean, in a post-WWII settlement, when the Allies were de-Nazifying Germany, and democratic Italy was bringing its Fascists (including the treasonous Jew-deporting members of the Italian Social Republic), Franco was selecting loonies from the Falange to sit at his cabinet table.

He was a deft politician who reacted skillfully to his circumstances which confronted him, but let's not pretend that the material improvements in Spain from the 1960s onwards had been all along part of his initial plan when he first came to power.

He was similar to other rogues like Peron in Argentina and Vargas in Brazil who would shamelessly dance to any tune depending on the weather, and who were never memebers of the Western tradition