Everyone is barbaric except for the Elves!
Anglo-Saxon barbarian language?
Gjones,
What is the point between a culture which considers foreignics as barbars and languages derived from a popular speech?
“Nietzsche, though a cultured person himself, sometimes glorified barbarians, and produced passages that were later useful to the Nazis (though he himself was opposed to some of the things that the Nazis supported).”
Nietzsche 1844-1900 ????? Tell me how Nietzshe could be opposed to nazism????
“the French writer Rousseau”
Where did you learn Rousseau was french??????!!!!! Born in Genève, you should see on a map where is that city!!!
“"On dit que le calife Omar, consulté sur ce qu'il falloit faire de la bibliothèque d'Alexandrie, répondit en ces termes: Si les livres de cette bibliothèque contiennent des choses opposées à l'Alcoran, ils sont mauvais, et il faut les brûler; s'ils ne contiennent que la doctrine de l'Alcoran, brûlez-les encore: ils sont superflus...Cependant, supposez Grégoire-le Grand à la place d'Omar, et l'Évangile à la place de l'Alcoran, la bibliothèque auroit encore été brûlée, et ce seroit peut-être le plus beau trait de la vie de cet illustre pontife." »
??????
Where do we read he aprooves or supports it?????
What is the point between a culture which considers foreignics as barbars and languages derived from a popular speech?
“Nietzsche, though a cultured person himself, sometimes glorified barbarians, and produced passages that were later useful to the Nazis (though he himself was opposed to some of the things that the Nazis supported).”
Nietzsche 1844-1900 ????? Tell me how Nietzshe could be opposed to nazism????
“the French writer Rousseau”
Where did you learn Rousseau was french??????!!!!! Born in Genève, you should see on a map where is that city!!!
“"On dit que le calife Omar, consulté sur ce qu'il falloit faire de la bibliothèque d'Alexandrie, répondit en ces termes: Si les livres de cette bibliothèque contiennent des choses opposées à l'Alcoran, ils sont mauvais, et il faut les brûler; s'ils ne contiennent que la doctrine de l'Alcoran, brûlez-les encore: ils sont superflus...Cependant, supposez Grégoire-le Grand à la place d'Omar, et l'Évangile à la place de l'Alcoran, la bibliothèque auroit encore été brûlée, et ce seroit peut-être le plus beau trait de la vie de cet illustre pontife." »
??????
Where do we read he aprooves or supports it?????
Evo,
=> Nietzsche 1844-1900 ????? Tell me how Nietzshe could be opposed to nazism????<=
That quite easy, if someone living in, let's say, 1870 opposed to dictators, mass murder and millitarism, etc. It would be logical to be againsts - at least SOME of the things- nazism stands for.
=>Where did you learn Rousseau was french??????!!!!! Born in Genève, you should see on a map where is that city!!! <=
Rousseau was 14 when he left for France, and he died in France.He spend the largest part of his life in France. It would be fair to say he was Franco-Swiss.
=> Nietzsche 1844-1900 ????? Tell me how Nietzshe could be opposed to nazism????<=
That quite easy, if someone living in, let's say, 1870 opposed to dictators, mass murder and millitarism, etc. It would be logical to be againsts - at least SOME of the things- nazism stands for.
=>Where did you learn Rousseau was french??????!!!!! Born in Genève, you should see on a map where is that city!!! <=
Rousseau was 14 when he left for France, and he died in France.He spend the largest part of his life in France. It would be fair to say he was Franco-Swiss.
[Evo, though I get the impression that you're just looking for things to quibble about, I'll make a response. Sander has anticipated a couple of things I'm going to say.]
>What is the point between a culture which considers foreignics as barbars and languages derived from a popular speech? [Evo]
I don't understand that question as it's currently written. Maybe if you rephrase it or expand upon it, I'll see what you're asking.
>Where did you learn Rousseau was french??????!!!!! Born in Genève, you should see on a map where is that city!!!
Actually Geneva is one of the few European cities outside Spain that I've visited. The earlier discussion concerned language groups, and I was thinking more of Rousseau's language than his nationality, though I knew that he'd been born in Geneva, and that Geneva was in Switzerland. He also lived in France for many years and is entombed in the Panthéon in Paris. (You might also have noted that I called Nietzsche 'German', though he'd renounced his Prussian citizenship and spent much of his life in Switzerland.) It's irrelevant to the ideas I was discussing, but I suppose it's important to the Swiss -- and to Rousseau himself, who continued to regard himself as a citizen of Geneva -- so I retract the term 'French writer'. The term 'Franco-Swiss writer' will convey the idea about the language without being misleading about the nationality. (At least I hope so. I'm using 'Franco-Swiss' to mean French-speaking Swiss, not half French, half Swiss.)
>What is the point between a culture which considers foreignics as barbars and languages derived from a popular speech? [Evo]
I don't understand that question as it's currently written. Maybe if you rephrase it or expand upon it, I'll see what you're asking.
>Where did you learn Rousseau was french??????!!!!! Born in Genève, you should see on a map where is that city!!!
Actually Geneva is one of the few European cities outside Spain that I've visited. The earlier discussion concerned language groups, and I was thinking more of Rousseau's language than his nationality, though I knew that he'd been born in Geneva, and that Geneva was in Switzerland. He also lived in France for many years and is entombed in the Panthéon in Paris. (You might also have noted that I called Nietzsche 'German', though he'd renounced his Prussian citizenship and spent much of his life in Switzerland.) It's irrelevant to the ideas I was discussing, but I suppose it's important to the Swiss -- and to Rousseau himself, who continued to regard himself as a citizen of Geneva -- so I retract the term 'French writer'. The term 'Franco-Swiss writer' will convey the idea about the language without being misleading about the nationality. (At least I hope so. I'm using 'Franco-Swiss' to mean French-speaking Swiss, not half French, half Swiss.)
>Nietzsche 1844-1900 ????? Tell me how Nietzs[c]he could be opposed to nazism???? [Evo]
Do you actually believe that I'd know enough about Nietzsche to remember the "blond beast" passage and be able to find it, yet not know that Nietzsche died well before the advent of Nazism? :-) I didn't say that he opposed "Nazism". I said that he "was opposed to some of the things that the Nazis supported" -- concepts, ideas, that had existed before them. Sander understood what I was saying.
For instance, Nietzsche wasn't a nationalist (e.g., as I said, he renounced his Prussian citizenship). He often made negative statements about the Germans. He said that "Die Deutschen haben Europa um die letzte grosse Kultur-Ernte gebracht, die es für Europa heimzubringen gab -- um die der Renaissance." [Rough translation: The Germans have destroyed for Europe the last great cultural harvest that Europe was to produce -- that of the Renaissance."
And though he sometimes found fault with the Jewish religion, he criticized anti-Semitism. Speaking of Germany he said: "Man muss es in den Kauf nehmen, wenn einem Volke, das am nationalen Nervenfieber und politischen Ehrgeize leidet, leiden will -, mancherlei Wolken und Störungen über den Geist ziehn, kurz, kleine Anfälle von Verdummung: zum Beispiel bei den Deutschen von Heute bald die antifranzösische Dummheit, bald die antijüdische, bald die antipolnische, bald die christlich-romantische, bald die Wagnerianische, bald die teutonische, bald die preussische...und wie sie Alle heissen mögen, diese kleinen Benebelungen des deutschen Geistes und Gewissens.
[Rough translation: We must accept that when a people suffers -- wishes to suffer -- nationalistic fervor and political ambition, various clouds and disturbances will perturb its spirit, in short, little attacks of stupidity, for example, among the Germans of today the anti-French stupidity, the anti-Jewish, anti-Polish, Christian-Romantic, Wagnerian, Teutonic...and whatever else they may be called, these little obfuscations of the German spirit and conscience.]
"Dass die Juden, wenn sie wollten - oder, wenn man sie dazu zwänge, wie es die Antisemiten zu wollen scheinen -, jetzt schon das Übergewicht, ja ganz wörtlich die Herrschaft über Europa haben könnten, steht fest; dass sie nicht darauf hin arbeiten und Pläne machen, ebenfalls...sie dürsten darnach, endlich irgendwo fest, erlaubt, geachtet zu sein und dem Nomadenleben, dem "ewigen Juden" ein Ziel zu setzen -;...wozu es vielleicht nützlich und billig wäre, die antisemitischen Schreihälse des Landes zu verweisen."
[Rough translation: It's clear that the Jews, if they wanted to -- if forced to resort to it, as the anti-Semites appear to desire -- even now could become dominant, literally be able to become masters of Europe; that they are not working or planning for that is equally clear....They thirst to be established somewhere, to be tolerated and respected and to put an end to their nomadic life, an end to being the Wandering Jew....And for this it might be useful and fitting to expel the anti-Semitic ranters from the country.]
Do you actually believe that I'd know enough about Nietzsche to remember the "blond beast" passage and be able to find it, yet not know that Nietzsche died well before the advent of Nazism? :-) I didn't say that he opposed "Nazism". I said that he "was opposed to some of the things that the Nazis supported" -- concepts, ideas, that had existed before them. Sander understood what I was saying.
For instance, Nietzsche wasn't a nationalist (e.g., as I said, he renounced his Prussian citizenship). He often made negative statements about the Germans. He said that "Die Deutschen haben Europa um die letzte grosse Kultur-Ernte gebracht, die es für Europa heimzubringen gab -- um die der Renaissance." [Rough translation: The Germans have destroyed for Europe the last great cultural harvest that Europe was to produce -- that of the Renaissance."
And though he sometimes found fault with the Jewish religion, he criticized anti-Semitism. Speaking of Germany he said: "Man muss es in den Kauf nehmen, wenn einem Volke, das am nationalen Nervenfieber und politischen Ehrgeize leidet, leiden will -, mancherlei Wolken und Störungen über den Geist ziehn, kurz, kleine Anfälle von Verdummung: zum Beispiel bei den Deutschen von Heute bald die antifranzösische Dummheit, bald die antijüdische, bald die antipolnische, bald die christlich-romantische, bald die Wagnerianische, bald die teutonische, bald die preussische...und wie sie Alle heissen mögen, diese kleinen Benebelungen des deutschen Geistes und Gewissens.
[Rough translation: We must accept that when a people suffers -- wishes to suffer -- nationalistic fervor and political ambition, various clouds and disturbances will perturb its spirit, in short, little attacks of stupidity, for example, among the Germans of today the anti-French stupidity, the anti-Jewish, anti-Polish, Christian-Romantic, Wagnerian, Teutonic...and whatever else they may be called, these little obfuscations of the German spirit and conscience.]
"Dass die Juden, wenn sie wollten - oder, wenn man sie dazu zwänge, wie es die Antisemiten zu wollen scheinen -, jetzt schon das Übergewicht, ja ganz wörtlich die Herrschaft über Europa haben könnten, steht fest; dass sie nicht darauf hin arbeiten und Pläne machen, ebenfalls...sie dürsten darnach, endlich irgendwo fest, erlaubt, geachtet zu sein und dem Nomadenleben, dem "ewigen Juden" ein Ziel zu setzen -;...wozu es vielleicht nützlich und billig wäre, die antisemitischen Schreihälse des Landes zu verweisen."
[Rough translation: It's clear that the Jews, if they wanted to -- if forced to resort to it, as the anti-Semites appear to desire -- even now could become dominant, literally be able to become masters of Europe; that they are not working or planning for that is equally clear....They thirst to be established somewhere, to be tolerated and respected and to put an end to their nomadic life, an end to being the Wandering Jew....And for this it might be useful and fitting to expel the anti-Semitic ranters from the country.]
>Where do we read he [Rousseau] aprooves or supports it [the destruction of the library of Alexandria]????? [Evo]
In the work from which my quotation was taken -- Discours sur les sciences et les arts. As I said earlier, the point of Rousseau's essay was to criticize the moral effects of the sciences [academic knowledge in the broad sense, not just technical science) and the arts, demonstrating that they were harmful. In the quoted passage he explicitly states that if Gregory the Great had done such a thing, it would have been "peut-être le plus beau trait de la vie" [perhaps the finest deed he ever did in his life].
Right before the part I quoted, Rousseau had spoken of the printing press and the harm that he thought that invention had done, predicting that sovereigns would soon be trying just as hard to eliminate it as they'd tried earlier to introduce it. He called it a "terrible art" [terrible art]. Previously he'd said, that the "monuments honteux" [shameful monuments] of the printing press were worse that the impious pagan writings. He's thankful that some of them have been lost, and regrets that the printing press makes it unlikely that this will happen to the "dangereuses rêveries" [dangerous imaginings] of writers such as Hobbes and Spinoza.
"(Note 10) A considérer les désordres affreux que l'imprimerie a déjà causés en Europe, à juger de l'avenir par le progrès que le mal fait d'un jour à l'autre, on peut prévoir aisément que les souverains ne tarderont pas à se donner autant de soins pour bannir cet art terrible de leurs Etats qu'ils en ont pris pour l'y introduire."
Text to which the note refers: "Le paganisme, livré à tous les égarements de la raison humaine, a-t-il laissé à la postérité rien qu'on puisse comparer aux monuments honteux que lui a préparés l'imprimerie, sous le règne de l'Evangile? Les écrits impies des Leucippe et des Diagoras sont péris avec eux. On n'avait point encore inventé l'art d'éterniser les extravagances de l'esprit humain. Mais, grâce aux caractères typographiques (Note 10) et à l'usage que nous en faisons, les dangereuses rêveries des Hobbes et des Spinoza resteront à jamais."
Here's a link to the entire work: http://un2sg4.unige.ch/athena/rousseau/jjr_sca.html
In the work from which my quotation was taken -- Discours sur les sciences et les arts. As I said earlier, the point of Rousseau's essay was to criticize the moral effects of the sciences [academic knowledge in the broad sense, not just technical science) and the arts, demonstrating that they were harmful. In the quoted passage he explicitly states that if Gregory the Great had done such a thing, it would have been "peut-être le plus beau trait de la vie" [perhaps the finest deed he ever did in his life].
Right before the part I quoted, Rousseau had spoken of the printing press and the harm that he thought that invention had done, predicting that sovereigns would soon be trying just as hard to eliminate it as they'd tried earlier to introduce it. He called it a "terrible art" [terrible art]. Previously he'd said, that the "monuments honteux" [shameful monuments] of the printing press were worse that the impious pagan writings. He's thankful that some of them have been lost, and regrets that the printing press makes it unlikely that this will happen to the "dangereuses rêveries" [dangerous imaginings] of writers such as Hobbes and Spinoza.
"(Note 10) A considérer les désordres affreux que l'imprimerie a déjà causés en Europe, à juger de l'avenir par le progrès que le mal fait d'un jour à l'autre, on peut prévoir aisément que les souverains ne tarderont pas à se donner autant de soins pour bannir cet art terrible de leurs Etats qu'ils en ont pris pour l'y introduire."
Text to which the note refers: "Le paganisme, livré à tous les égarements de la raison humaine, a-t-il laissé à la postérité rien qu'on puisse comparer aux monuments honteux que lui a préparés l'imprimerie, sous le règne de l'Evangile? Les écrits impies des Leucippe et des Diagoras sont péris avec eux. On n'avait point encore inventé l'art d'éterniser les extravagances de l'esprit humain. Mais, grâce aux caractères typographiques (Note 10) et à l'usage que nous en faisons, les dangereuses rêveries des Hobbes et des Spinoza resteront à jamais."
Here's a link to the entire work: http://un2sg4.unige.ch/athena/rousseau/jjr_sca.html
worse that the impious pagan writings -- worse than the impious pagan writings
My question is if we actually can accept Nietzsche as an important thinker? To me, his contradictory and strange ideas tell more about the society he lived in than about any nietzschean philosophy.
Nietzsche isn't a systematic philosopher. He's a good stylist, though, one of the best among philosophical writers in my opinion. (The rather clumsy sentences that I quoted weren't typical.) His provocative ideas stimulate thought, but I don't necessarily accept what he says as being true. That's because he rarely proves anything. He suggests rather than demonstrates. He's also fond of hyperbole and likes to shock his readers. Then too from a moral standpoint I can't accept his extreme elitism, especially his praise of ruthlessness towards the weak.
So I don't know if I'd recommend him or not. I usually find what he says to be interesting myself, whether I agree with it or not, and I've read a good many of his books. Others may consider him to be a waste of time, though. It depends on your taste in philosophical books.
So I don't know if I'd recommend him or not. I usually find what he says to be interesting myself, whether I agree with it or not, and I've read a good many of his books. Others may consider him to be a waste of time, though. It depends on your taste in philosophical books.
Niezsche lost all credibility in my eyes when I read that while on holiday in St. Moritz in Switzerland he walked around in the Alps thinking about himself as a "mountain eagle" and philosofizing about "Übermenschen" and ruthlessness against the weak, but at the same time having to wear an umbrella to protect himself against the sun!!!
Hilarious!
Hilarious!
English is the most cultivated Germanic language, because of French and Latin influence, unlike German and Dutch still having many barbaric roots