For Sanders and others : OCCITAN HAS SURVIVED FROM HELL!

Lou Bouiat   Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:35 pm GMT
Well Sander if you don't want to believe me :

Our so great country used to sent the men from my family to the death at 1st in the 1st world war, they were not the only one : Basques, catalans, auvergnats and bretons of course were sent the 1st on the front. The auvergnat population was 6 000 000 before and was near 4000 000 after. I am not talking about the bretons and the basques!

have a look on this map, it shows independance revendications in Europe, the 2 which are detected in France are in Bretagne and Basque country (with violence)

http://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/cartes/regions


If you are interested about languages in France, then go to : http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=France

you will notice the dutch is spoken between someother languages, only 2 languages are definitivly extincted : the zarphatic and the shuadit.

so why some people still saying that there is only 1 languages in France?

IT IS NOT THE CASE AND WE WILL BE INDEPENDANT SOONER OR LATER.
ALIVED LANGUAGES IN &quo   Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:40 pm GMT
ALIVED LANGUAGES IN FRANCE


Living languages
Alemannisch [gsw] 1,500,000 in France (1988 Hawkins in B. Comrie). Northeastern France, Alsace. Alternate names: Alemannic. Dialects: Alsatian (Alsacien, Elsaessisch). Classification: Indo-European, Germanic, West, High German, German, Upper German, Alemannic
More information.

Auvergnat [auv] 1,315,000 (2004). Auvergne; Haut-Auvergnat in Cantal and south of Haute-Loire; Bas-Auvergnat in the north of Haute-Loire and in Puy-de-Dome. Alternate names: Auvernhas, Auverne, Occitan. Dialects: Haut-Auvergnat, Bas-Auvergnat. Highly fragmented dialect situation, with limited intelligibility between northern and southern varieties. Classification: Indo-European, Italic, Romance, Italo-Western, Western, Gallo-Iberian, Ibero-Romance, Oc
More information.

Basque, Navarro-Labourdin [bqe] 67,500 (1991). Population includes 45,000 Labourdin, 22,500 Lower Navarro. Total Basque speakers in France estimated at 80,000. Ethnic population: 730,000 (1993 Johnstone). French-Spanish border, 800 square miles surrounding Bayonne, Labourd (Lapurdi), and Basse-Navarre departments. Alternate names: Navarro-Labourdin. Dialects: Labourdin (Lapurdiera), Eastern Low Navarrese (Benaffarera, Bajo Navarro Oriental), Western Low Navarrese (Bajo Navarro Occidental). Navarro-Labourdin is diverse from other Basque dialects, and needs separate literature. Classification: Basque
More information.

Basque, Souletin [bsz] 8,700 (1991). French-Spanish border, 800 square miles surrounding Bayonne, Soule, Pyrénées Atlantiques Province. Alternate names: Souletin, Souletino, Suletino, Xiberoera, Zuberoera, Suberoan. Dialects: Souletin is more diverse and speakers have difficulty understanding other varieties, especially for complex and abstract discourse. Separate literature desired and needed. Classification: Basque
More information.

Breton [bre] 500,000 in France (1989 ICDBL). 1,200,000 know Breton who do not regularly use it. Population total all countries: 532,722. Western Brittany, and dispersed in Eastern Brittany and Breton emigrant communities throughout the world. Also spoken in USA. Alternate names: Brezhoneg. Dialects: Leonais, Tregorrois, Vannetais, Cornouaillais. Classification: Indo-European, Celtic, Insular, Brythonic
More information.

Caló [rmr] 21,580 in France (2000 WCD). Southern France. Alternate names: Gitano, Iberian Romani. Dialects: Basque Calo, Catalonian Calo, Spanish Calo. Classification: Mixed Language, Iberian-Romani
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Catalan-Valencian-Balear [cat] 100,000 in France (1996). Catalonian France. Classification: Indo-European, Italic, Romance, Italo-Western, Western, Gallo-Iberian, Ibero-Romance, East Iberian
More information.

Corsican [cos] 341,000 in Corsica (2001 Johnstone and Mandryk). Population total all countries: 402,000. Corsica, Paris, Marseilles. Also spoken in Bolivia, Canada, Cuba, Italy, Puerto Rico, Uruguay, USA, Venezuela. Alternate names: Corsu, Corso, Corse, Corsi. Dialects: Sartenais, Vico-Ajaccio, Northern Corsican (Cape Cors, Bastia), Venaco. Corsican is in the Tuscan group of Italian varieties. Southern Corsican is closer to Northern Sardinian or Gallurese than other Corsican dialects (R. A. Hall, Jr.). Lexical similarity 79% to 89% among dialects of Bastia, Venaco, Vico, and Sartene. Bonifacio on the southern tip of the island has 78% lexical similarity (highest) with Bastia at extreme north. Ajaccio dialect is central and prestigious. Classification: Indo-European, Italic, Romance, Southern, Corsican
More information.

Dutch [nld] 80,000 in Westhoek. Westhoek in the northeast corner of France between the Artois Hills and the Belgium border. Classification: Indo-European, Germanic, West, Low Saxon-Low Franconian, Low Franconian
More information.

Esperanto [epo] 200 to 2,000 (1996). Speakers in about 115 countries, used most widely in central and eastern Europe, China and other countries in eastern Asia, certain areas of South America, and southwest Asia. Alternate names: La Lingvo Internacia. Classification: Artificial language
More information.

Franco-Provençal [frp] Population total all countries: 77,000. Savoie, Fribourg, and Valais, southeastern France, near the Italian and Switzerland borders. Also spoken in Italy, Switzerland. Alternate names: Patois, Arpitan. Dialects: Dauphinois, Lyonnais, Neuchatelais, Savoyard. Structurally separate language from Provençal, French, Piemontese, and Lombard (F. B. Agard). In Switzerland, every canton has its own dialect, with no standardization. Difficult intelligibility among the dialects, and especially with Fribourg. Classification: Indo-European, Italic, Romance, Italo-Western, Western, Gallo-Iberian, Gallo-Romance, Gallo-Rhaetian, Oïl, Southeastern
More information.

French [fra] 51,000,000 in France. Population total all countries: 64,858,311. Also spoken in Algeria, Andorra, Austria, Belgium, Benin, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cambodia, Cameroon, Canada, Central African Republic, Chad, Comoros, Congo, Côte d'Ivoire, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Djibouti, Equatorial Guinea, French Guiana, French Polynesia, Gabon, Guadeloupe, Guinea, Haiti, Hungary, Israel, Italy, Lebanon, Luxembourg, Madagascar, Mali, Martinique, Mauritania, Mauritius, Mayotte, Monaco, Morocco, New Caledonia, Niger, Philippines, Puerto Rico, Réunion, Rwanda, Saint Pierre and Miquelon, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Seychelles, Switzerland, Togo, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, USA, Vanuatu, Wallis and Futuna. Alternate names: Français. Dialects: Standard French, Norman (Normand), Angevin, Berrichon, Bourbonnais, Bourguignon, Franc-Comtois, Gallo, Poitevin, Santongeais, Lorraine. Lexical similarity 89% with Italian, 80% with Sardinian, 78% with Rheto-Romance, 75% with Portuguese, Romanian, and Spanish, 29% with German, 27% with English. Classification: Indo-European, Italic, Romance, Italo-Western, Western, Gallo-Iberian, Gallo-Romance, Gallo-Rhaetian, Oïl, French
More information.

French Sign Language [fsl] 50,000 to 100,000 primary users in France (1986 Gallaudet Univ.). 1,000 users of Marseille Sign Language (1975 Sallagooty). Southern FSL is used in Marseille, Toulon, La Ciotat, and Salon de Provence. Also used in Togo. Alternate names: Langue des Signes Française, LSF, FSL. Dialects: Marseille Sign Language (Southern French Sign Language). Many sign languages have been influenced by this, but are not necessarily intelligible with it. Reported to be partially intelligible with sign languages from Austria, Czech Republic, and Italy, at least. Lexical similarity 43% with American Sign Language in an 872-wordlist. Classification: Deaf sign language
More information.

Gascon [gsc] 250,000 in France (1990 P. Blanchet). Population total all countries: 253,814. Ethnic population: 400,000 (1982) in the Béarn region of southern Gasconha, France; 51% speak Gascon, 70% understand it, 85% are in favor of saving it. Gascogne Province, from Médoc to the Pyrénées, from the Atlantic to the Catalan area. Béarnese is spoken by a strong majority in the Béarn. Also spoken in Spain. Alternate names: Occitan. Dialects: Landais, Béarnais (Biarnese), Ariégeois, Aranese. Gascon, Languedocien, and Limousin are structurally separate languages (F.B. Agard). Gascon speakers have some comprehension of Provençal; some or limited comprehension of Languedocien (reports differ). Inherently intelligible with Aranese Gascon in Spain, which is a dialect. Classification: Indo-European, Italic, Romance, Italo-Western, Western, Gallo-Iberian, Ibero-Romance, Oc
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Greek [ell] Cargese, Corsica. Dialects: Cargese. Classification: Indo-European, Greek, Attic
More information.

Interlingua [ina] Alternate names: Interlingua de Iala. Classification: Artificial language
More information.

Italian [ita] 1,000,000 in France (1977 Voegelin and Voegelin). Classification: Indo-European, Italic, Romance, Italo-Western, Italo-Dalmatian
More information.

Languedocien [lnc] 5,000. Languedoc Province, from Montpellier to Toulouse, Bordeaux, Rodez, and Albi. Alternate names: Lengadoucian, Languedoc, Langadoc, Occitan, Occitani. Dialects: Bas-Languedocien, Languedocien Moyen, Haut-Languedocien, Guyennais. A separate language from Provençal (P. Blanchet 1990). Gascon speakers have limited intelligibility of Languedocien. Classification: Indo-European, Italic, Romance, Italo-Western, Western, Gallo-Iberian, Ibero-Romance, Oc
More information.

Ligurian [lij] Bonifacio, Corsica, and between the Italian border and Monaco. Alternate names: Ligure. Dialects: Genoese (Genoan, Genovese). Classification: Indo-European, Italic, Romance, Italo-Western, Western, Gallo-Iberian, Gallo-Romance, Gallo-Italian
More information.

Limousin [lms] 10,000. Limousin Province. Haut-Limousin around Limoges, Guéret, and Nontron in Charente; Bas-Limousin around Correze and Périgord. Alternate names: Lemosin, Occitan. Dialects: Haut-Limousin, Bas-Limousin. Limousin, Languedocien, and Gascon are structurally separate languages (F. B. Agard). Partially intelligible to Provençal. In the north of the province people use a transition dialect with certain Oïl (north French) features. Classification: Indo-European, Italic, Romance, Italo-Western, Western, Gallo-Iberian, Ibero-Romance, Oc
More information.

Luxembourgeois [ltz] 40,000 in France (2001 J. Nousse). Spoken along the border with Germany and Luxemburg in the Moselle Department, Thionville, France. Alternate names: Frankish, Platt. Classification: Indo-European, Germanic, West, High German, German, Middle German, West Middle German, Moselle Franconian
More information.

Lyons Sign Language [lsg] Dialects: 250 miles from Paris, but difficult and little intelligibility of French Sign Language. Classification: Deaf sign language
More information.

Picard [pcd] Most of the Region de Picardie (Amiens, Abbeville, Beauvais, St. Quentin), the Region Nord-Pas-de-Calais (Lille, Douai, Cambrai, Arras, Valenciennes, Boulogne sur Mer, Calais), except the Dunkerque District, and a little eastern zone (border with Picardie of the Region de Haute Normandie near Dieppe). Also spoken in Belgium. Alternate names: Rouchi, Chtimi. Dialects: Ponthieu, Vimeu, Hainaut, Artois, Lillois, Boulonnais, Santerre, Calaisis, Cambresis, Vermandois, Amienois (Amies). All dialects, including those in Belgium, are inherently intelligible to speakers. Classification: Indo-European, Italic, Romance, Italo-Western, Western, Gallo-Iberian, Gallo-Romance, Gallo-Rhaetian, Oïl, French
More information.

Portuguese [por] 750,000 in France (1989 National Geographic). Classification: Indo-European, Italic, Romance, Italo-Western, Western, Gallo-Iberian, Ibero-Romance, West Iberian, Portuguese-Galician
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Provençal [prv] 250,000 in France (1990 P. Blanchet). Population total all countries: 354,500. Southeastern France, province of Provence, south of Dauphiné, region of Nimes in Languedoc. Also spoken in Italy, Monaco. Alternate names: Prouvençau, Mistralien. Dialects: Transalpin, Niçard (Niçois), Maritime Provençal (Marseillais, Toulonnais, Varois), Gavot (Alpin, Valeien, Gapian, Forcalquieren), Rhodanien (Nimois), Dauphinois (Dromois). Gascon, Languedocien, and Limousin are structurally separate languages (F. Agard). Provençal and Languedocien (Occitan) are separate languages (P. Blanchet 1990). No Provençal variety is universally accepted as the standard literary form. Niçard and Northern Gavot (Valeien and Gapian) are more difficult for other dialect speakers to understand. Classification: Indo-European, Italic, Romance, Italo-Western, Western, Gallo-Iberian, Ibero-Romance, Oc
More information.

Romani, Balkan [rmn] 10,500 in France. Population includes 10,000 Arlija, 500 Dzambazi. Dialects: Arlija, Dzambazi. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Indo-Aryan, Central zone, Romani, Balkan
More information.

Romani, Sinte [rmo] 28,434 in France (2000 WCD). Alternate names: Sinti, Rommanes, Tsigane. Dialects: Manouche (Manuche, Manush). Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Indo-Aryan, Central zone, Romani, Northern
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Romani, Vlax [rmy] 10,000 in France. Population includes 8,000 Kalderash, 2,000 Lovari. Alternate names: Romenes, Rom, Tsigane, Vlax. Dialects: Kalderash, Lovari. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Indo-Aryan, Central zone, Romani, Vlax
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Spanish [spa] Alternate names: Castillan. Classification: Indo-European, Italic, Romance, Italo-Western, Western, Gallo-Iberian, Ibero-Romance, West Iberian, Castilian
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Vlaams [vls] 10,000 in France (1984 Menheere, 1993 Evenhuis). Westhoek (French Flanders). Alternate names: Flamand, Flemish, Vlaemsch. Dialects: Frans Vlaams (Vlaemsch). Classification: Indo-European, Germanic, West, Low Saxon-Low Franconian, Low Franconian
More information.


Extinct languages
Shuadit [sdt] Extinct. Department of Vaucluse in southern France, and city of Avignon. Alternate names: Shuadi, Judeo-Provençal, Judeo-Comtadine. Classification: Indo-European, Italic, Romance, Italo-Western, Western, Gallo-Iberian, Ibero-Romance, Oc
More information.

Zarphatic [zrp] Extinct. Alternate names: Judeo-French. Classification: Indo-European, Italic, Romance, Italo-Western, Western, Gallo-Iberian, Gallo-Romance, Gallo-Rhaetian, Oïl, French
More information.
Sander   Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:13 pm GMT
Statistics do NOT impress me,especially when they arren't accurate.


=>Dutch [nld] 80,000 in Westhoek. Westhoek in the northeast corner of France between the Artois Hills and the Belgium border. Classification: Indo-European, Germanic, West, Low Saxon-Low Franconian, Low Franconian
More information.<=

According to more reliable statistics,the number of Dutch speakers in France is arround 3000.

=>Our so great country used to sent the men from my family to the death at 1st in the 1st world war, they were not the only one : Basques, catalans, auvergnats and bretons of course were sent the 1st on the front. The auvergnat population was 6 000 000 before and was near 4000 000 after. I am not talking about the bretons and the basques<=

These are the real numbers of WW1,


Country - Casualties - Dead - Wounded
Russia 6,650,000 - 1,700,000 - 5,950,000
Germany 5,989,758 - 2,037,700 - 4,216,058
France 5,623,800 - 1,357,800 - 4,266,000
Austria-Hungary - 4,820,000 - 1,200,000 - 3,620,000
British Empire - 2,998,583 - 908,371 - 2,090,300

France suffered 1,357,800 deads during the war,not even close to your 2 million (which should have all died,AND all came from auverge...
Sander   Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:17 pm GMT
BTW,my name is "Sander" not "Sanders"
greg   Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:57 pm GMT
Lou Bouiat : si tu nous épargnais ta bouillie pour chats et prenait le temps de nous expliquer 1/ pourquoi tu aimes la langue auvergnate - 2/ quelques points grammaticaux concernant les langues occitanes, peut-être ferais-tu avancer ta cause avec plus d'efficacité...

Ton impact est quasi-nul car la colère t'aveugle et le ressentiment t'empêche de bâtir un discours. Je suis sûr que tu as beaucoup à partager. Ca tombe bien : j'ai beaucoup à apprendre !
bernard   Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:53 pm GMT
bien répondu Greg !
Les langues "occitanes" sont très belles, j'aurais personellement aimé qu'elles soint devenues le "Français de référence" plutôt que la langue d'oil Francilienne.
Le fait d'être fier de ses racines "occitanes" n'a rien à voir avec le fait de rejeter l'identité Française (de manière violente et obscurantiste qui plus est).

D'une certaine manière, on pourrait dire que les méridionaux (dits par certains "occitans") sont plus Français que leur compatriotes du nord, ayant été romanisés plus profondement et plus tôt que le reste du pays. Il suffit d'ailleurs de leur demander pour se rendre compte que l'attachement à la France est bien plus fort dans les régions de 'langue d'oc" que dans les régions de "langue d'oil"...
greg   Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:06 am GMT
Entièrement d'accord.
Rulie   Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:16 pm GMT
to the wrong Sander,

No you cannot, because if you were the real one, i am sure you would write "Sun of" instead of "son of"
Sander   Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:53 pm GMT
"Rullie/Daniel/guest/whatever", fuck off and die.
Adam Returns   Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:39 pm GMT
Seems like there is a bit of tension in hear Sander...The French are busting on you...
Sander   Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:41 pm GMT
Yo ADAM shut the front door
Adam   Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:42 pm GMT
Britain has the highest per captia GDP of any Euronation

Britain is cool.

I am cool.

Sander - I must agree with the French this time.
Sander   Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:44 pm GMT
Yo shut the dillyo
Spit the flow
Cause you know
Got to go
Rullie   Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:02 pm GMT
Sander,

I must agree with the english this time.
Adam   Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:16 pm GMT
Rullie, I must agree with you and the French this time.

Not Sander.