Sly and cunning

Koss   Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:51 am GMT
Is there a difference between the words "sly" and "cunning", or are they synonims?
Are these words often used in common speech?
Uriel   Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:22 am GMT
They mean about the same thing and they are common enough.
Guest   Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:32 pm GMT
It is good to have both traits so keep on trying and the world will be a more fun place.
Amatire   Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:38 pm GMT
perhaps I am being obscurely pedantic, but I would say a sly smile and a cunning smile were slightly different things. One can be more slight than the other. A cunning smile can easily be a full blown evil grin, whereas a sly smile can mean both a cunning smile or a slight smile - as in barely noticable, more subtle, someone attempting to hide their true, mischievous motives.
Frank   Fri Mar 03, 2006 10:52 am GMT
Which of the two words are more common in colloquial speech?
Amatire   Fri Mar 03, 2006 11:45 am GMT
I don't imagine there is a penny to toss between them. It depends on what you are meaning as to which you use, so it relies on context more than anything. If you're wanting to pick one to use as standard, pick whichever one you like the look of best, you'll be understood whichever you say.
Frank   Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:34 pm GMT
And are there synonims of "sly" and "cunning" which are widely used?
Jojo   Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:43 pm GMT
sly: roguish:mischievous:nasty:wiley:guile:insidious:treacherous:crafty:devious.

cunning:
smart:guileless:crafty:underhanded:perfidious.

Cunning can be used for intelligence, as well as something sinister, sly can't.
Frank   Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:09 pm GMT
Oh, so many words. I wonder which of them are most often used?
In Russian, my native language, we use the word хитрый very often. It is translated by all dictionaries as "sly" and "cunning"...
But from my experience, I haven't come across words as sly, cunning, guileless, crafty, roguish and so on often...
Guest   Fri Mar 03, 2006 10:03 pm GMT
Frank,
never rely on the russian-english dictionaries. they are not good, really. Russian word "хитрый" definitely has a negative connotation .To understand which of the two english words presumebly sounds more negative use Webster Online and Online Etymological Dictionary. They gives the origin of a word. Actually I have always been wondering myself about"sly" and "cunning". According to dictionaries, etymology of cunning - from cunnen "to know" ,originally meaning "learned;" the sense of "skillfully deceitful" is probably 14 century. Etymology of sly - "strike", and about sly it says "A non-pejorative use of the word lingered in northern Eng. dialect until 20c." I agree with you, both word are not used too often as colloquial words, so our only chance to understand the difference is reading.
Uriel   Sat Mar 04, 2006 4:50 am GMT
People can be referred to as being either "as sly as a fox" or "as cunning as a fox", sly and cunning smiles have been mentioned, once speaks slyly when one is overtly implying something unsaid.

I would not personally use guileless as a synonym for cunning. as to me, guileless means WITHOUT guile; honest, straightforward.

And to me both can have negative connotations or not, but even when they don't, they still often retain an air of something not quite open and forthright.
guest   Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:24 am GMT
In speech, you can use cunning or sly interchangeably. As most native speakers would do. They are both the most common words used for the concept that they represent. A lot of the words offered up as synonyms by Jojo are not true synonymns. Mischieveous is the only word similar to sly. Everything else is either too negative, or too obscure. Most speakers have never used the word "guile".

If you want to be a stickler, a better definition of cunning would be "plotting" and a better definition of sly would be "secretive". You can see that even those words are very similar. Sly can be used playfully, and cunning usually denotes some sort of intelligence.
Glikeria   Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:34 am GMT
"our only chance to understand the difference is reading."
That's wrong. There are two more:
1. Get some help from nice people in forums, which has been done. I find the answers above very useful.
2. Find a good dictionary of synonyms.
For Russian speakers, there is one, by A.I Rosenman. It's superb! Only it's a pity it only has 300 entries.

That's what it says, in a nutshell.
Both sly and cunning mean the absence of sincerity, but slyness is a feature of character and cunning is more consciuos and aimed at getting some profit or advantage.
Besides, the dictionary explains the connotations for all the range: crafty, artful, tricky, foxy, wily.

I've been looking for a similar larger dictionary for years, unsuccessfully.
Does there exist any British/American one? I doubt.