Les noms de villes étrangères dans votre langue

JR   Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:37 am GMT
Here are the names of some of the towns in Spanish


Aquisgrán
Amberes
Atenas
Basilea
Bérgamo
Bremen
Cádiz
Cantorbery
Coblenza
Coire
Colonia? (not sure about this one)
Córdoba
Copenhague
Cracovia
Detroit
Dover
Edimburgo
Florencia
Gante
Genova
Gerona
Ivrea
Nueva Orleans
Livorno
Londres
Lovaina
Malinas
Maguncia
Milano
Moscú
Munich
Nápoles
Nimegue
Padua
Pamplona
Perugia
Praga
Ratisbona
Roma
Santiago de Compostela
San Sebastián
Salamanca
Zaragoza
Sevilla
Siracusa
Toledo
Torino
Varsovia
Verona
Vicence
Viena
Vintimilla
Fredrik from Norway   Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:02 pm GMT
The German name for Norway's third largest city Trondheim is sooo ugly:
Drontheim!
Easterner   Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:48 pm GMT
Hungarian has separate names for many of the capitals of neighbouring countries, but usually these don't go beyond the the necessary phonetic adjustments to make them easier for Hungarians to pronounce (Bucureşti - Bukarest, Beograd - Belgrád, Praha - Prága, etc.). The only exception are cities, towns and villages which were in the former Kingdom of Hungary which before WWI comprised Transylvania, present-day Slovakia, Croatia and the present-day Serbian province of Vojvodina. For example, my native town, Subotica, is called Szabadka, the Romanian city of Cluj-Napoca is Kolozsvár, and the Slovakian capital Bratislava is called Pozsony (this latter city had several names in the past, apart from the above two, it was Pressburg in German, and a Slovacised version of this was Prešpor, which later became substituted by Bratislava). There are many more of such names, of course.

The case of the Hungarian name of Vienna is rather interesting. The city is called Bécs in Hungarian, and the same form of the word is used in Croatian and Serbian as well. The origin of the word probably goes back to a word of dubious (probably Slavic) origin meaning "outskirts", "uninhabited parts of a town or village", reflecting the fact that it was a small border town in the time the Hungarians settled in the Carpathian Basin, before it developed into a major city of the Holy Roman Empire and finally into the capital of the Habsburg Empire. Its name is not uniform in other languages either: Slovenes call it Dunaj (same as the name of the river Danube), and it is Víden' in Czech and Vieden' in Slovak. The latter forms probably com from "Vednja", the Old Slavic form of the city's Roman name Vindobona (but some claim it was a separate word).
Ed   Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:53 pm GMT
> The German name for Norway's third largest city Trondheim is sooo ugly:
Drontheim!

It doesn't look too dissimilar to me, is it pronounced very differently?

Warschau looks and sounds rather ugly to me, probably because the the 'sch' and 'au' sounds do not sound good to me. Afrikaans lacks an 'au' sound, which sounds harsh to me. 'sch' (rendered as 'sj') is rare, it seems to only be used in words of foreign origin such as 'masjien' (machine).
Easterner   Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:03 pm GMT
Re: "The official Irish name for Dublin is Baile Atha Cliath."

Here is some info I found on the origin of Dublin's name. Acording to it, Átha Cliath (meaning "Ford of Hurdles", the name of a secular settlement) is as old a place-name as Dubh Linn (meaning "Black Pool", the name of a monastic settlement), but it was the latter name that was adopted by the Viking invaders, and later became Dyvelin and Dyflin. So ultimately, calling the city Baile Átha Cliath ("Town at the Ford of Hurdles") is as justified as calling it Dublin.

See more at http://www.iall.org/iall2000/dublin_guide.html.

As for the name of Warsaw, most Slavic languages use a form identical to Warszawa ("Vahrshahvah") , the original Polish name (Russian Варшава, Serbian and Croatian Varšava, etc.). However, the Hungarian name is very close to how it is pronounced in German (Varsó, pronounced "Vahrshaw"), and most Romance languages have Varsovia, Varsovie or a similar form. Actually, the Hungarian version of Wikipedia indicates that Warszowa was the original name. At first, it was a small village, later became the capital of the principality of Mazovia, and finally (in the 16th century) that of the whole of the Kingdom of Poland, instead of Kraków (Cracow), the former Polish capital, as a result of its being midway between Cracow and Vilnius, the capital of the Lithuanian part of the Polish-Lithuanian kingdom.

By the way, with the exception of perhaps Warsaw and Cracow, almost all Polish city names have some consonant cluster or other in them which have resulted in less tongue-breaking forms in other languages, especially German. The most famous one is perhaps Danzig, whose Polish name is Gdan'sk.
На &a   Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:54 am GMT
Aix-la-Chapelle — Ахен
Alexandrie — Александрија
Anvers — Антверпен
Athènes — Атина
Bâle — Базел
Bergame — Бергамо
Berlin — Берлин
Bienne — Бјен
Bois-le-Duc — Бош (Ден Бош)
Bombay — Бомбај (Мумбај)
Brême — Бремен
Cadix — Кадиз
Cantorbéry — Кентербери
Coblence — Кобленц
Coire — Хур
Cologne — Келн
Côme — Комо
Cordoue — Кордоба (modern day Spanish), Кордова (Caliphate)
Copenhague — Копенхаген
Courtrai — Куртре
Cracovie — Краков
Détroit — Детроит
Douvres — Довер
Dresde — Дрезден
Édimbourg — Единбург (Exception to Serbian Phonetic alphabet: written with an "н" [n], but pronounced with an "м" [m])
Estanhangues (actuellement inusité) — Стоунхенџ
Evrevic / Evroïc / Guevrevic (actuellement inusité) — Јорк
Florence — Фиренца
Gand — Ган (traditionally, according to French); Хент (recently more and more used, because the city is Flemish, but officially it is still "Ган")
Gênes — Женева
Gérone — Жирона
Gloëcestre (actuellement inusité) — Глостер
Guincestre / Vincestre / Wincestre (actuellement inusité) — Винчестер
Guinesores (actuellement inusité) — Виндзор
Guirecestre (actuellement inusité) — Вустер (sauce), Ворчестер (city)
Hantone (actuellement inusité) — Саутемптон
Istamboul — Истанбул (official), Стамбол (throughoout literature up to 1918), Цариград (= Emperor's City, i.e. Constantinople)
Ivrée — ??
La Haye — Хаг
La Nouvelle-Orléans — Њу Орлеанс
La Valette — Лавалета
Le Caire — Каиро
Le Cap — Кејптаун
Leyde — Лајден
Liège — Лијеж
Lisbonne — Лисабон
Livourne — Ливорно
Londres — Лондон
Louvain — Лувен
Lucques — Лука
Malines — Мехелен
Mayence — Мајнц
Milan — Милано
Moscou — Москва
Munich — Минхен
Naples — Напуљ
Nimègue — Најмеген
Nuremberg — Нирнберг
Padoue — Падова
Pampelune — Памплона
Paris — Париз
Pérouse — Перуђа
Plaisance — Пјаченца
Prague — Праг
Ratisbonne — Регенсбург (again, phonetically it should be Регензбург with a [з] )
Rome — Рим
Saint-Jacques-de-Compostelle — Сантјаго (де Компостела)
Saint-Sébastien — Сан Себастијан
Salamanque — Саламанка
Saragosse — Сарагоса
Sarrebruck — Сарбрикен
Schaffhouse — Шафхаузен
Schwytz — Швиц
Séville — Севиља
Soleure — ??
Smyrne — Смирна (historically and up to 1920s); Измир (modern city)
Syracuse — Сиракуза
Tolède — Толедо
Tournai — Турне
Turin — Торино
Varsovie — Варшава
Vatican — Ватикан
Venise — Венеција
Vérone — Верона
Vicence — Виченца
Vienne — Беч (today exclusively so); Вијена (historically, when Serbia was a part of Austrian empire 1718-39, and throughout the XIX century)
Vintimille — Вентимиља
Ypres — Ипр
Zoug — Цуг
Oops   Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:55 am GMT
That was Serbian, the "Name"field didn't like Cyrillic... ;-)
Fredrik from Norway   Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:51 pm GMT
Ed:
Drontheim makes you think of drontes, which sounds like some scary, nasty, disgusting dinosaur....
Candy   Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:37 pm GMT
<<almost all Polish city names have some consonant cluster or other in them which have resulted in less tongue-breaking forms in other languages, especially German. The most famous one is perhaps Danzig, whose Polish name is Gdan'sk.>>

Yes - other examples being Bydgoszcz, which is called Bromberg in German, and Wrocław (Breslau).

Another example, from the Netherlands, which just randomly occurred to me then: Nijmegen is called Nimwegen in German.
Ed   Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:36 pm GMT
> Another example, from the Netherlands, which just randomly occurred to me then: Nijmegen is called Nimwegen in German.

The German version surely has more of a consonant cluster than its Dutch equivalent? IJ is considered a letter by the Dutch and is a vowel sound, close to the 'ay' in English 'say'.
Ed   Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:48 pm GMT
In Afrikaans the Dutch ij is replaced with a y, this functions as a vowel just as it can in English. Eg 'ys' (ice) sounds much like English 'ace'.
Candy   Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:15 am GMT
I'd got off the topic of consonant clusters, Ed: I just thought of a German name that's different from the Dutch one, simply because I saw a road sign for 'Nimwegen' yesterday. I wasn't saying anything about consonants - 'another exaample' was referring to the thread topic.
Candy   Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:49 am GMT
Thanks, Brennus! :) I'm afraid the study of place names will have to wait till I've finished writing my historical novel, though! :) It is a fascinating topic, and you're quite right about some place names being old Celtic names in disguse. There's a town not far from where I grew up called Carlisle, which is 'Caer Luel' with an altered spelling. 'Caer' means 'fort', I think, and is a typical suffix in Welsh place names - Caerphilly, Cardiff, Carmarthen etc.
Ed   Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:56 pm GMT
> I'd got off the topic of consonant clusters, Ed: I just thought of a German name that's different from the Dutch one, simply because I saw a road sign for 'Nimwegen' yesterday. I wasn't saying anything about consonants - 'another exaample' was referring to the thread topic.

I see, I was thinking Nijmegen is not difficult to pronounce, unlike many Polish names!

Here are two more: Simons Town/Simonstad, Champagne (the place or the drink)/Sjampanje
greg   Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:23 am GMT
Alexandrie-d'Égypte / Alexandrea ad Ægyptum — El Iskanderiya / الإسكندرية
Alger — El Djazaïr / ولاية الجزائر
Aoste — Aosta
Bône / Hippone — Annaba / عنابة
Brindes — Brindisi
Constantine — Qusantînah / قسنطينة
La Mecque — Makka / مَكَّة
Mogador / Essaouira — Amogdul / As Sawirah
Oran — Wahran / وهران
Palma de Majorque — Palma de Mallorca
Rhégion de Calabre — Reggio di Calabria
Tanger — Tandja / طنجة