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I wonder if the Latin and Germanic languages ever mated
some other Germanic properties of French:
aspiration of germanic phoneme h- (rarely pronounced today [pronunciation ceased within last 100-200 years generally], but occasionally heard in dialects) and non-liason/non-elision subsequently
pronunciation (diphthongization in Old French: long a>"ai", i/e>"ei">"oi") and "Francien" accent [French 'sounds' like German or Dutch rather than like Italian/Spanish]; possibly nasalization (existed in old germanic, Old English, and continues in Netherlandic)
adjective placement before noun in compound words: "prudhomme", "gentilhomme", "blanc-seing"; and in expressions involving 'de' as in "Je l'ai fait de mes blanches mains"; also before some adjectives of quality like "joli" [< germanic]...
verbal contructions using avoir (perfect, future, etc)
lexicon ([we've already explored this aspect extensively])
use of être vs avoir in the perfect where motion/change of condition exists (cf. "je *suis* parti" [I have gone] vs "j'ai fait" [I have done]) just like in Dutch and German...
prefixes/suffixes such as "-on" (baron) & "-in" (jardin) from oblique germanic weak declension; "-ard"; etc..."mes-"; "-ais"...
Finite verbs (auxiliary) in clauses...
Many common words too come from germanic: like bouquin (book), garçon, hâte (haste), honner, halle, heurter (strike), harasser (exhaust), trop, blond, bois, bison, esturgeon, attacher, dériver (<Eng 'drive'), danser (dance), égarer, épargner, esquiver, guider (guide), lécher, épeler, épier, soigner, frapper...
Why is there no list for these words like for Spanish & Portuguese?...is the list too long?
some Latin properties of French:
ALL the rest
<<some Latin properties of French:
ALL the rest >>
Not really...Latin was/is a synthetic language, and French is analytic: Latin didn't make use of prepositions like 'de'/'a' in the way that French does...
<<<<some Latin properties of French:
ALL the rest >> >>
no.
"brisser," "changer," "piece", "bataille"...these are Celtic
so is the numbering system for 80, 90, 91 and so on...
quatre-vingts
quatre-vingt-dix
quatre-vingt-onze...built on a Celtic pattern
<<<Many common words too come from germanic: like bouquin (book), garçon, hâte (haste), honner, halle, heurter (strike), harasser (exhaust), trop, blond, bois, bison, esturgeon, attacher, dériver (<Eng 'drive'), danser (dance), égarer, épargner, esquiver, guider (guide), lécher, épeler, épier, soigner, frapper...
Why is there no list for these words like for Spanish & Portuguese?...is the list too long? >>>
Here a link containing some lists and explanations to the Germanic influence on French vocabulary
http://www.multilingual-matters.net/cils/006/0195/cils0060195.pdf
thank you for the link - I found there that only a very few words stem from Gaulish
nouns
alouette, lark,
braguette, fly (of trousers),
charrue, plough
carriole, cart,
carrosse, coach, l
otte, monkfish
limande, dab,
chêne, oak,
sapin, pine
verbs
brasser, brew,
briser, break,
changer, change
is this all???
Arent the words ambassadeur, ambassade, pièce, petit, battre and riche all ultimately of Gaulish origin? Although some of them may have entered Latin via other langauges.
<<some Latin properties of French:
ALL the rest >>
YES it is
Latin was/is a synthetic language, and French is analytic: Latin didn't make use of prepositions like 'de'/'a' in the way that French does...
like all other European languages and like all other Romances languages...so?
<<like all other European languages and like all other Romances languages...so? >>
no...
Languages like those in the Slavic and Baltic branch, and Greek, never experienced the hybridization events that Romance and some germanic languages like English (hybridization via Old Norse) did and are therefore still very synthetic...
<<thank you for the link - I found there that only a very few words stem from Gaulish
...
...
is this all??? >>
There are certainly more, yes, that made their way from Gaulish/Celtic into French or Gaulish/Celtic into Vulgar Latin then into French...
carrus (car, > "charge")
caballus (horse)
bulga > "bulge", "budget"
glennare > "glean"
lande > "lawn" in Eng...from either Celtic or Germanic or both
dune (Celtic and/or Germanic)
vassus, vassallus, vassallittus > "vassal", "valet", "varlet"
battuere > "batter", "[com]bat", etc...
...just to name a few
- carrus > char > car, cart, to carry
- change > cambiare > to change
- battere > battre > to beat
- braies > breeches
- brasser > to brew
- dune > Düne > duine
- lande > landa > lawn
- briser > to break > brechen
- pin > pine
- etc.
Interestingly, nearly all of those Gaulic words were very early handed over to English, and many of them also to Italian, Spanish and even German.
This is one of the many reasons that let me assume that so-called Vulgar Latin emerged much earlier than generally alleged, featured an important Celtic (and possibly Germanic) input, was completely different from Latin, and was actually the real ancestor of modern romance languages.
<<This is one of the many reasons that let me assume that so-called Vulgar Latin emerged much earlier than generally alleged, featured an important Celtic (and possibly Germanic) input, was completely different from Latin, and was actually the real ancestor of modern romance languages. >>
I wholeheartedly agree. The Romance languages, especially the Western group, share too many similarities with one another that were NOT inherited from Latin, but derive from another language altogether, an intermediate one.
Latin enthusiasts and those who fancy a notion that Modern Romance languages are "daughters of Latin", like to refer to this language as "Vulgar Latin" or "Oro-Latin" with [misleading] emphasis on the "-Latin" part...(as if to say "...see?...it's **-LATIN**...")--WRONG. It's proto-Romance, which is a hybrid of Latin, German[ic] and Celtic.
Please people, "Temet nosce"
"I wholeheartedly agree. The Romance languages, especially the Western group, share too many similarities with one another that were NOT inherited from Latin, but derive from another language altogether, an intermediate one. "
Isn't it much more probable that this assumed "other language" is simply the Germanic language brought in by all the immigrating peoples from Germania into Western Europe during the early middle ages?
"I wholeheartedly agree. The Romance languages, especially the Western group, share too many similarities with one another that were NOT inherited from Latin, but derive from another language altogether, an intermediate one."
Absolutely, that would explain why languages like Portuguese and Spanish are so - relatively - different from each other despite being both territories under Roman rule and very close to each other.
If the original language was a Germanic language it would explain too why Portuguese is farther from Latin than Spanish, since the Visigoths already spoke a kind of romance language when they invaded Spain while the Suebians (who settled in Galicia and northern Portugal, where Portuguese developped) did not.
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