Idioms are good to know, because sometimes, as you point out, they defy logic or don't make literal sense. But every language has them. And as you say, native speakers use them all the time without considering their literal meanings, so they are worth knowing.
There are special dictionaries for idioms, as well as books that trace the origins of common sayings (many of which are interesting or surprising); they can be very useful for learners, as well as entertaining for native speakers. ;)
But, Uriel, my point was quite the opposite: the idiom (paying for) is very common and highly understandable, it's the infinitive "to pollute" which seems to be in a strange place makes the grammatical structure unclear! I think this is why Guest says "It was ambiguous nevertheless which is why I stated it was badly worded".
"environment is still paying for business to pollute"
??? Not sure why you're objecting to "pollute". That sounds fine to me. Same construction "I'm still waiting for her to arrive."
Perhaps it would be better if we could see the original sentence in its entirety, and in its context.
Sure I completely understand the meaning: who pays for the polluting done by business? - an environment does!
Uriel:"Not sure why you're objecting "to pollute"."
but in ALL his (her) posts Guest's doing the same - "objecting to "pollute".
Are you, Guest, a native-speaker?
"I'm still waiting for her to arrive." -yes, it's absolutely clear.
"An environment is still paying for business to pollute" - I can see a strong similarity in structure, but yet since "an environment doesn't have money', I'd rather say something like "An environment is still paying for the polluting which has been done by business" (I admit it sounds clumsy).
Yes, I am a native speaker.
Uriel is deducing the meaning from the context as j suggests without regard for the correct form of the idiom.
The use of any infinitive on the end of the idiom in question is atypical. It implies future expectation ("to arrive", "to pollute") which confuses the setting involving an existing condition. I thought I made this clear with earlier examples that contrast the use and nonuse of infinitives.
Uriel and Guest,
I have a problem with using (not reading with following comprehending) the word YET as conjunction.
Please, check my next 2 sentences from the above postings for accurate using:
1(...)I can see a strong similarity, but YET SINCE "an environment doesn't have money", I'd rather say something like...
2. Every word... is absolutely clear, YET the GRAMMATICAL STRUCTURE seems a bit unusual ...
Thank you in advance.
In the first sentence, "but" makes "yet" redundant, so use only one or the other. It's no issue with the second sentence.
Guest Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:35 am GMT
Yes, I am a native speaker.
Uriel is deducing the meaning from the context as j suggests without regard for the correct form of the idiom.
The use of any infinitive on the end of the idiom in question is atypical. It implies future expectation ("to arrive", "to pollute") which confuses the setting involving an existing condition. I thought I made this clear with earlier examples that contrast the use and nonuse of infinitives.
j Sun Apr 09, 2006 7:16 pm GMT
Uriel and Guest,
I have a problem with using (not reading with following comprehending) the word YET as conjunction.
Please, check my next 2 sentences from the above postings for accurate using:
1(...)I can see a strong similarity, but YET SINCE "an environment doesn't have money", I'd rather say something like...
2. Every word... is absolutely clear, YET the GRAMMATICAL STRUCTURE seems a bit unusual ...
Thank you in advance.
Guest Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:34 pm GMT
In the first sentence, "but" makes "yet" redundant, so use only one or the other. It's no issue with the second sentence.
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Their method makes people waste time. Even they haven't learnt English in Poland. What a sorrow!
Pronunciation Symbols of Reader's Digest Illustrated Encyclopedia Dictionary for Antimoon.
ă stands for 'eh-ah, not ah "cat, map, camp, sad..."
ãr stands for 'eh-ah(-r) "care, fair, bear, where..."
ā stands for 'eh-ee "cake, pain, vein, prey, day, sleigh..."
--------------------------------
ĕ stands for eh "bed, sweat, dead, death, health..."
er stands for eh~(-r) "bird, verb, fur, work, word..."
ē stands for ee / e "meat, beet, bee, sea, piece, field..."
--------------------------------
ĭ stands for 'ee-eh / ih "fish, busy, building, bitch..."
ĭ stands for 'ee-ah(-r) "beer, fear, weird, mere..."
ī stands for 'ah-ee "light, buy, lie, sky, isle..."
īr stands for 'ah-ee-ah(-r) "fire, liar, buyer..."
--------------------------------
ŏ stands for 'aw-ah, not ah "cot, dog, dock, pop, bomb..."
ō stands for 'aw-oo / oh "slow, bone, load, dough, comb..."
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ŭ stands for aw-'ah / uh "duck, mud, pup, slut..."
ū stands for ee-'oo "new, cute, duty, view, feudal..."
yor stands for ee-'aw-ah(r) "pure, cure..."
--------------------------------
ä stands for ah, not eh "grass, glance, command, bath..."
är stands for ah~(-r) "car, heart, sergeant..."
--------------------------------
ö stands for aw, not er "law, faun, yawn, call..."
ör stands for aw~(-r) "lord, floor, sword..."
--------------------------------
oo stands for oo "fool, dude, food, womb, tomb..."
--------------------------------
oo stands for oo-'aw "foot, woman, wolf, hook, good..."
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oi stands for 'aw-eh "boil, boy, point..."
--------------------------------
ou stands for 'ah-aw "round, down, proud..."
--------------------------------
th stands for Spanish z "thing"
th stands for hard d in few words "that"
g stands for German g "game, girl"
g stands for Italian g "gem, geometry"
h stands for soft mouth air (aspiration) "home"
stands for no sound in French origin "hour"
j stands for Italian g "jail (gaol)"
l stands for behind the tongue, "doll, ball"
no tooth
y stands for ee "yesterday"
w stands for oo "well"
wh stands for hoo or oo "wheel, what"
-nion = ~nee-un, not ñun
-tion = shun
-stion = s chun
-sion = zhun
-rsion = r shun or r zhun
-ssion = shun
-cial = shawl
-tial = shawl
Repeat these words.
receive, believe, leave
belief, leaf, brief
wrong, knowledge, gnat, psychics, dumb, debt, psalm
Some people don't say the sounds as they should be pronounced. These
people use regional accents instead of the standard or basic accent.
Received British Pronunciation is the most acceptable accent around the world.
American English is the modern accent used in the United States of America.
There's no problem for me to start using o: instead of ö.
--------------------------------
o: stands for aw, not er "law, faun, yawn, call..."
o:r stands for aw~(-r) "lord, floor, sword..."
--------------------------------
The symbols are not representing languages. Furthermore, these ones are
used in most dictionaries of the English language.
I know German has ö as er, somehow pronounced, but English isn't German
Why are here information of my sound descriptions?
Are these people faking me and copying my messages to represent me?
I'm going to post this to let any intruder know who I am. I'm closer to them but they're not from me.
I hate fake threads.