Do you pronounce all these As the same? Or different? If different, how do you differentiate them?
bar
gar
yard
tar
Barb
march
etc.
bar
gar
yard
tar
Barb
march
etc.
As before Rs
Yeah, I do. Do you not? I know in some parts of the Midwest they have different vowels for some of those words. I recorded myself saying those words here:
http://media.putfile.com/Bargar
http://media.putfile.com/Bargar
I pronounce those as:
"bar" : [ba:R]
"gar" : [ga:R]
"yard" : [ja:Rt_X]
"tar" : [t_ha:R]
"Barb" : [ba:Rp_X]
"march" : [mVRtS]
The only one of these which uses a different vowel from the others is "march", due to a rule where /a/ is realized as [V] before /R/ followed immediately by a fortis obstruent.
"bar" : [ba:R]
"gar" : [ga:R]
"yard" : [ja:Rt_X]
"tar" : [t_ha:R]
"Barb" : [ba:Rp_X]
"march" : [mVRtS]
The only one of these which uses a different vowel from the others is "march", due to a rule where /a/ is realized as [V] before /R/ followed immediately by a fortis obstruent.
I don't, which I guess is my point. I say bar, gar, and tar the same as all of you. However, yard, Barb, and march all have more schwa-ish sounds before their Rs. Perhaps you only have that for march, Travis? Is this some weird freaky Northern thing that I have or what? I guess I just noticed it the other day when I realized that pretty much everyone I know pronounces those words the way I do, while NO ONE on TV does.
<<I don't, which I guess is my point. I say bar, gar, and tar the same as all of you. However, yard, Barb, and march all have more schwa-ish sounds before their Rs. Perhaps you only have that for march, Travis? Is this some weird freaky Northern thing that I have or what? I guess I just noticed it the other day when I realized that pretty much everyone I know pronounces those words the way I do, while NO ONE on TV does.>>
Yes, that's a feature of Northern Midwest accents. But apparently the sound conditions governing when the schwa sound is used are dependent upon region within the Northern Midwest. Anyway, when I hear such a thing I immediately know the person is from the Northern Midwest as I've never heard that feature from anyone else's dialect (and obviously don't do it myself, if you listen to my recording).
Yes, that's a feature of Northern Midwest accents. But apparently the sound conditions governing when the schwa sound is used are dependent upon region within the Northern Midwest. Anyway, when I hear such a thing I immediately know the person is from the Northern Midwest as I've never heard that feature from anyone else's dialect (and obviously don't do it myself, if you listen to my recording).
>>I don't, which I guess is my point. I say bar, gar, and tar the same as all of you. However, yard, Barb, and march all have more schwa-ish sounds before their Rs. Perhaps you only have that for march, Travis? Is this some weird freaky Northern thing that I have or what? I guess I just noticed it the other day when I realized that pretty much everyone I know pronounces those words the way I do, while NO ONE on TV does.<<
Yes, I only have that for "march", as for me it is conditioned by the obstruent following /aR/ being fortis (I don't say unvoiced, as the actual realized voicing does not affect this; all obstruents in my dialect are unvoiced in word-final position, be they fortis or lenis). And yes, this kind of thing is very northern Midwest-specific. I myself too have realized the same sort of thing about TV versus people here in Real Life, with the weird thing is that its absence does not come off as marked for people on TV, yet does come off as marked in Real Life.
One note about this is that this seems to be relatively new or has at least only relatively recently settled down as a local dialect pattern here, in that many middle-aged individuals here in the Milwaukee area will alternate between [VR] and [aR] for /aR/ before fortis obstruents, while the use of [VR] in such cases appears to be the primary pattern by far amongst younger individuals. But then, this is like many features which seem to alternate more between more local forms and more GAE-like forms amongst middle-aged individuals than younger individuals, who most often tend *against* the use of more GAE-like forms in such cases.
Yes, I only have that for "march", as for me it is conditioned by the obstruent following /aR/ being fortis (I don't say unvoiced, as the actual realized voicing does not affect this; all obstruents in my dialect are unvoiced in word-final position, be they fortis or lenis). And yes, this kind of thing is very northern Midwest-specific. I myself too have realized the same sort of thing about TV versus people here in Real Life, with the weird thing is that its absence does not come off as marked for people on TV, yet does come off as marked in Real Life.
One note about this is that this seems to be relatively new or has at least only relatively recently settled down as a local dialect pattern here, in that many middle-aged individuals here in the Milwaukee area will alternate between [VR] and [aR] for /aR/ before fortis obstruents, while the use of [VR] in such cases appears to be the primary pattern by far amongst younger individuals. But then, this is like many features which seem to alternate more between more local forms and more GAE-like forms amongst middle-aged individuals than younger individuals, who most often tend *against* the use of more GAE-like forms in such cases.
>>I'm not middle-aged.....<<
I am speaking about features in the dialect here, and variation amongst them, especially when there is a more GAE-like form in alternation with a less GAE-like form, and was simply saying that here GAE-like forms tend to be found more frequently in the speech of middle-aged individuals than that of younger individuals. That is all.
I am speaking about features in the dialect here, and variation amongst them, especially when there is a more GAE-like form in alternation with a less GAE-like form, and was simply saying that here GAE-like forms tend to be found more frequently in the speech of middle-aged individuals than that of younger individuals. That is all.
I don't pronouince the Rs at all.
As an Englishman, all the Rs are for is to elongate the vowel sound and they aren't supposed to be pronounced.
As an Englishman, all the Rs are for is to elongate the vowel sound and they aren't supposed to be pronounced.