Vive Le Quebec libre

Trunks   Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:31 pm GMT
Message of the Day - June 24, 2002
Vive Le Quebec Libre!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Today, June 24th, is the celebration of Quebec’s national day. Now, you may be thinking, since when did Quebec have a national day since it is still part of Canada, right? Well, technically Quebec is indeed still a part of Canada, however, a significant portion of the French speaking majority doesn’t feel a part of Canada and would just as soon not be a part of a confederation it didn’t join by choice in 1867.

Through the 17th century as well as the first half of the 18th century, what is now known as Quebec was a part of the growing French colonial empire. Globally, only the British rivaled the French. The rivalry between the two was the superpower relations of the 18th century. In the 1750’s, war broke out between the two. This war, known as the Seven Years’ War, was one of global proportions. There was fighting in Asia, on the European continent, on the seas, and on the North American continent. The North American portion of the war is often referred to at the French and Indian War.

In 1759, the North American phase of the war effectively was brought to an end when the British won the Battle on the Plains of Abraham outside Quebec City. That is the date many Quebecois (what most of the French population of Quebec refers to itself as) refer to as the date of conquest. With the treaty that followed France’s ultimate defeat in the war, Quebec was formally ceded to Britain and was eventually made a part of British North America.

British rule was a roller coaster of tolerance and repression. Quebec has significant differences from the rest of Anglo-North America. The two primary differences are the Roman Catholic faith of the vast majority of the residents as well as the French language and culture of the people. A time of extreme repression by the British led to an unsuccessful rebellion by French nationalists in 1837.

Canadians would like outsiders to believe that all has been tranquil between the English majority and the French minority since confederation in 1867. This is far from the case. Only two years removed from confederation, French-speakers in the prairie provinces rebelled against the new government. This rebellion served to fuel nationalism in Quebec, where French are the majority. When the rebel leader was hung in 1885, outrage grew in areas with large French-speaking populations.

Canada joined in World War I in 1914. There was a significant difference of opinion between the Quebecois and the Anglo-Canadians. Anglo-Canadians were eager to go to war in support of England. The Quebecois were in opposition to this. They had no desire to go to fight a war that they felt they had no stake in. This led to increased unrest. Finally, opposition brewing in Quebec was suppressed by federal troops in 1917. This, as well as the economic problems faced by Quebec due to discrimination to the “Blacks of Canada” fueled large-scale emigration of Quebecois people to the three states of northern New England (New Hampshire, Vermont, and Maine) through the 1910s and 1920s. The large French populations in those three states are largely a legacy of that emigration from Quebec.

The discord repeated itself during the Second World War. Canada joined the war in 1939. By 1942, there was a conscription crisis in Canada, basically for the same reasons that there were in the First World War. The people of Quebec basically felt that their concerns that this was a war not in Canada’s interest or in the interest of the Quebec people were being completely ignored.

By the time the 1960s arrived, French culture and language was under assault in Quebec. Many people of French heritage in Quebec couldn’t speak the language, the Roman Catholic Church was under assault, as were the French institutions such as education and law that were fundamentally different from those of their Anglo counterparts. Must as the United States had its own cultural revolution in the 1960s, Quebec did as well. In Quebec, there was a revival of the French language and French culture. This revolution naturally led to a revival of Quebec nationalism. This Quebec nationalism was fueled by the 1967 visit of French President Charles de Gaulle when he proclaimed “Vive le Quebec Libre!” (Long Live Free Quebec!). This led to the founding of the separatist Parti Quebecois by Rene Levesque. Two years later, militants create a crisis in Quebec during which civil liberties were suspended in Quebec. A bombing campaign, the kidnapping of a British diplomat, and other events led to this. This was really the high point of anti-Unionist violence in Quebec.

Following the turbulent early seventies, the movement toward Quebec independence grew more peaceful. In 1980, there was a referendum for Quebec independence. Though it failed by a 3-2 margin, it showed that there was in fact significant support for an independent Quebec state (nearly half of the French-speaking Quebecois voted in favor of independence). At this point, the rest of Canada realized that succession was a real possibility. Proposals were initiated that would amend Canada’s 1982 Constitution that would recognize Quebec as a distinct society within Canada. In 1987, this Meech Lake Accord was drafted. However, in 1990, this Meech Lake Accord failed to gain ratification. It was at this point that many Quebec nationalists vowed that Quebec would in fact gain its independence.

In 1994, Jacques Parizeau won the premiership (governorship) of Quebec on a platform of promising a referendum on Quebec independence. This vote occurred in 1995. In the weeks leading up to the referendum, polls were indicating that the people of Quebec would in fact vote for independence. At that point, government owned agencies (including Air Canada) offered pro-Unionists incentives to go and vote for continued union with Canada. As a result of this corruption on the pro-Union side, the referendum was defeated by a 50.6 to 49.4% margin. I remember at that time, as a Quebecois-American, the despair that both myself felt as well as friends of mine in Athens who were natives of Quebec. We thought that our homeland would finally be free, but alas the Unionists plotted to keep Quebec firmly under the yoke of Canada.

Quebec is indeed a nation. The people of Quebec speak a different language, practice a different religious faith, have different legal and educational institutions, and have a different culture than the rest of Canada. This certainly is enough to define Quebec as a nation. As a forced member of Canada, it can also be classified as a captive-nation. This is much the same status that was granted the nations captured by the Soviet Union during the Cold War. Until Quebec achieves its independence from Canada, it will continue to be a captive nation and will be an abomination to the North American continent until it finally is able to claim its independence and join the global family of free and independent nations.

VIVE LE QUEBEC LIBRE!!!
Ved   Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:14 pm GMT
I fail to see how this topic belongs on this website. I'd personally be sad if going to Montreal or Quebec meant going abroad sometime in the future, but I am pretty sure les Quebecois are quite capable of making their own mature decision about what they wish to call their country. So far, they have decided that the name is Canada. :-P

It would also suck to have to drive through a foreign country in order to get to another part of your own country (as would be the case if Quebec seceded and I wanted to drive from Ontario to New Brunswick).

I'm quite confident Canada will survive as a country and I feel Montreal is one of the brightest jewels in its crown, to use a corny old metaphor.
Brennus   Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:29 pm GMT
I agree with Ved. The topic really doesn't belong on a language website even though we all have our own personal opinions about these things. Personally, as an American, I could live with an independent Quebec al though I can see where it would give Canadians a problem making them kind of the Pakistan of North America. Nevertheless, Quebec might still wind up becoming something a lot like Puerto Rico which is officially part of the United States but has a great deal of autonomy (self-government) and hasn't had an Yankee governor since 1948. It seems to be well on the way right now.
greg   Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:58 pm GMT
Oui, vive le Québec ***LIBRE*** et indépendant !

Aujourd'hui, 28 juillet 2005, nos pensées s'envolent pour l'Acadie où, il y a 250 ans exactement, plus de 15.000 femmes et hommes ont été déportés pour la seule raison qu'ils parlaient français et entendaient demeurer fidèles à la France.

Les Acadiens appellent "Le grand dérangement" le génocide et la déportation perpétrés par les Anglais. Entre 1755 et 1763, près de 8.000 personnes ont péri dans les bateaux qui les conduisaient de force vers la Grande-Bretagne.

Cette année, 250 ans après les faits, le Canada commémore le génocide des Acadiens pour la toute première fois. La reine d'Angleterre a présenté ses excuses en décembre 2003, avec 248 ans de retard. Peut-être que les nettoyages ethniques qui ont défiguré la Yougoslavie dans les années 90 ont permis aux bourreaux du peuple acadien de faire leur examen de conscience plus rapidement ?

Heureusement les Acadiens qui ont survécu à l'hécatombe sont revenus dans les Maritimes. Ils sont 300.000 aujourd'hui. D'autres se sont établis en Louisianne ou en Nouvelle-Angleterre.

Vive l'Acadie ***VIVANTE*** et indépendante !
Ved   Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:41 am GMT
You're French, right?

Well, long live independent and free Brittany, Alsace, Lorraine, Bask Country, Catalonia, Provence... Oh shall I go on or do you get the point?
greg   Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:46 am GMT
Tu peux continuer comme il te plaira car je ne vois pas où tu veux en venir. Les Bretons, Alsaciens, Lorrains, Basques, Catalans et autres Provençaux n'ont jamais revendiqué un état séparé pour eux. Il existe certes des minorités agissantes en Bretagne, au Pays basque (et en Corse), mais elles sont condamnées par l'immense majorité de la population qui souhaite conserver la nationalité française. Tel n'est peut-être pas le cas des Québécois qui, je te le rappelle, ont voté il y a peu pour l'indépendance à 49,5 % . D'autre part la 'sécession'¹ du Québec est un événement envisagé par la législation canadienne puisqu'un référendum en ce sens a été organisé dans le respect total de la légalité.

¹J'ai mis des guillemets pour souligner le fait que le Québec a été intégré au Canada britannique ***CONTRE*** l'avis de sa population. Le cas de l'Acadie est encore plus simple : les Acadiens n'étaient pas d'accord, on les a assassinés et déportés.
bernard   Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:21 am GMT
his topic has not really its place in this forum , as long its speaks about politics and not languages.

I agree that poeple like greg should not take part of e question that is mainly an internal affair of the Canadian state.
ps : Ved, your comparaison between Quebec and Alsace, Brittany, Provence or other french region is completly inacurate. in these regions the number of people who speak a different language instead of the national one is inferior to 10% in the best case, and close to 0.5% for Provence... while in Quebec province it is about 80%. The number of people who ask for independance are as few as people who would ask for independance of Oklahoma or Virginia...
LOL   Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:50 pm GMT
What would Quebec be without Canada? NOTHING!
Trunks   Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:15 pm GMT
What would Quebec be without Canada? NOTHING! >

A live as a free nation
greg   Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:22 pm GMT
bernard : je te remercie pour tes remarques, mais c'est moi qui juge si je m'exprime sur un sujet X ou Y. Quand j'aurai besoin de ton avis, je te sonnerai.
Trixie   Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:54 pm GMT
What is l'Acadie?
Who are les Acadiennes ? see Greg Post

Qu'est-ce que c'est l'Acadie ? Qui sont les Acadiennes ?

Thanks
Jordi   Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:21 pm GMT
Mon très cher Greg:

Il faudra bien préciser que le Roussillon, la Cerdagne et les autres comtés catalans, qui maintenant appartiennent à la France, sauf la petite commune de Llívia qui est resté une partie du Royaume de l’Espagne malgré être entourée de territoire toujours catalan et maintenant aussi français, ont été attachés à la France en 1659, contre la volonté des catalans de l'époque. Il y a eu une forte résistance et beaucoup d'entre eux, certes, on fuit vers la Catalogne Sud pendant que le français a été imposé à la force, même aux notaires qui ne connaissaient que très mal cette langue étrangère (à l'époque en tout cas.) Il s’agit autant de l’histoire de la Catalogne comme de l’histoire de la France et de l’Espagne.

Je ne parle pas des roussillonnais actuels, bien sûr, malgré qu'il faudra dire que le pourcentage de la population qui parle un dialecte germanique en Alsace est au delà du 50% et que le pourcentage de ceux qui parle encore catalan en Catalogne Nord est du 40% à présent. Les recensements linguistiques viennent, au meilleur de ma connaissance, du côté français.

Loin, donc, du 10% que certains voudraient faire croire pour la permanence des "autres langues françaises". Il existe aussi des recensements linguistiques pour le corse qui serait aussi au delà du 50%. En ce qui concerne l’occitan, le pourcentage est encore du 51%, par exemple, entre la population adulte gasconne et de plus du 25% en Aquitaine Languedoc et un 20% de la population provençale aurait encore une bonne connaissance de sa langue ancestrale. Il faudra encore regarder les recensements faits à ce sujet par certains Conseils Régionaux français, facilement trouvables à l’Internet.

Ça ne veut rien dire, bien sur, et ça ne va pas contre l’unité de la France (ça dit très peu, par contre, de son égalité et fraternité bien que la France mérite tous mes respects ) ; mais il faut bien préciser que de Gaulle a aussi dit, souvenez vous, «Vive l'Algérie Française» ce qui fait mal au coeur à nos amis pied-noirs qui ont perdu leur pays de naissance et leur foyer.

Je suis malgré tout d'accord avec toi et j'ai décider écrire dans cette belle langue française à Antilune quoi qu’il me soit très difficile et ennuyeux, à présent, de vous suivre dans la mesure necéssaire.

Vive la France dans sa plus belle diversité!
Jordi   Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:43 pm GMT
Beaucoup trop vite, dans une langue que j'écris malheureusement peu, et quelques petites erreurs de frappe et d'esprit. Le manque de temps et de dictionnaire me trahissent. Veuillez bien vouloir être condescendents.
nico   Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:34 pm GMT
Jordi,

nous le sommes, tu te débrouilles "très bien" en français.

Je ne crois pas que l'on puisse comparer l'histoire de France et du Quebec (notez que je ne dis pas Canada).


Que cousins d'Amérique du nord vivent libres et comme ils l'entendent!
Jordi   Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:18 pm GMT
Bien sur Nico, comme disent les français: plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.