zreading/sraining

Milky   Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:11 pm GMT
Is there anyone here who doesn't pronounce "it's raining" as "sraining" and "he's reading" as "zreading" when speaking rapidly?
Lazar   Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:47 pm GMT
Well no, I don't think I would reduce those phrases as far as "sraining" [sr\eInIN] and "zreading" ["zr\i4IN].

But in rapid speech I might pronounce "it's raining" as "tsraining" [tsr\eInIN] and I might pronounce "he's reading" as "eezreading" [iz"r\i4IN] or "izreading" [Iz"r\i4IN].
Guest   Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:01 am GMT
I have to agree with Lazar. I sometimes drop the "i" from "it's" and the "h" from "he", but not the second letter.
Guest   Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:02 am GMT
>>I have to agree with Lazar. I sometimes drop the "i" from "it's" and the "h" from "he", but not the second letter.<<

Ditto.
Kirk   Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:54 am GMT
Yeah, the <ts> stays. In normal informal speech, many English speakers will say things like (this is how I'd say them):

<'ts kin(d)a nice> ["tskaIn@ naIs]
<'ts raining> ["tsr\eniN]
<'ts fresher here> ["tsfr\ES@` hIr\]
<'ts gotta go> ["tskA4@ go(U)]
<'ts cleaner here> ["tsklin@` hIr\]
<'ts cuter that way> ["tskj}4@`D{t_} we(I)]

Notice how it can produce consonant clusters with onsets such as <tsk-> <tsfr-> <tsky-> or even <tskl-> which English doesn't allow on an underlying level but is permitted in some phonetic representations of underlying phonemic ones.
Tommie   Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:13 am GMT
I don't see any real difference in pronunciation between:

sraining

and

'ts raining

For me, the "s" produces the 'ts sound.

And why do you place a gap between "'ts" and "raining" there?
Travis   Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:44 am GMT
>>For me, the "s" produces the 'ts sound.<<

Why would it necessarily do so?

>>And why do you place a gap between "'ts" and "raining" there?<<

Because usually orthographically a space is placed in such positions, and the placement of spaces orthographically need not relate to actual pronunciation at all.
Tommie   Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:48 pm GMT
>>For me, the "s" produces the 'ts sound.<<

Why would it necessarily do so? >>

How should I know? It just does.

<<>>And why do you place a gap between "'ts" and "raining" there?<<

Because usually orthographically a space is placed in such positions, and the placement of spaces orthographically need not relate to actual pronunciation at all. >>

Seems to be more confusing for learners. Better to write it as 'tsraining, as that's what we are discussing here. If not, we learners might think we should pronounce it as a 'ts sound with a gap and then raining, which it isn't.
Damian in Edinburgh   Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:48 pm GMT
Shakespearean English is littered with the "t'is" formation. "T'is but a swain forlorn am I". "T'is an evening fair o'er the bonnie city o' Dun Eidann".

Richmal Crompton's scamp Just William always used the t's shortcut. "T's not fair! I'm always bein' told off! Just wait 't'ill I'm all grown up - I'll be the one bossin' evr'yone 'round...."

Violet Elizabeth, who liked to believe, erroneously, that she was William's friend, had a lisp and William made a point of regularly upsetting her so much that she said she would "thcream and thream tho loud" by way of protest at his lack of gallantry.
Lazar   Fri Apr 21, 2006 6:26 pm GMT
Quoth Kirk:
<<'ts kin(d)a nice> ["tskaIn@ naIs]>>

Ah, so I'm not the only person who pronounces "kinda" as "kina" ["k_haIn@]. (I had been wondering about that.)

Now on a related note, does anyone ever pronounce the word "think", when it's introducing a subordinate clause, as "thing" ["TIN]? For instance, in everyday speech, I would pronounce the phrase:

"I think it's pretty good."

as

[aI "TIN Its p_hr\I4i "gUd].
Travis   Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:47 pm GMT
>>Ah, so I'm not the only person who pronounces "kinda" as "kina" ["k_haIn@]. (I had been wondering about that.) <<

On the other hand, I have the glorious nasal flap here, having ["k_ha:I~4~@] for "kinda". :D
Uriel   Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:17 pm GMT
<<Is there anyone here who doesn't pronounce "it's raining" as "sraining" and "he's reading" as "zreading" when speaking rapidly?>>

Milky, I do it all the time -- I tend to slur my words a lot.
Milky   Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:42 pm GMT
<Milky, I do it all the time -- I tend to slur my words a lot. >

I'm sorry for you, but we are talking about a different thing here, i.e. habit of reducing unstressed syllables under the timing pressure.
Kirk   Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:34 pm GMT
<<Ah, so I'm not the only person who pronounces "kinda" as "kina" ["k_haIn@]. (I had been wondering about that.)>>

Oh yeah, you're definitely not alone :) There's no common /nd/ -> [n] rule like the /nt/ -> [n] one for me but it's not surprising a high-frequency cliticized function word would experience such a thing (just like "wanna"--which doesn't follow the /nt/ -> [n] rules but it's also a high-frequency cliticized function word so it does what it wants).

<<Now on a related note, does anyone ever pronounce the word "think", when it's introducing a subordinate clause, as "thing" ["TIN]? For instance, in everyday speech, I would pronounce the phrase:

"I think it's pretty good."

as

[aI "TIN Its p_hr\I4i "gUd].>>

I may do that occasionally but I seem to usually have the [k].