shrink, shrank, shrunk

<<If a foreigner would use that way, he/she would be told that his/her English is bad.
Tell me why when a foreigner makes mistakes his Englisih is considered bad, but when a native speaker makes the same mistakes, that is OK and acceptable?>>

Oh no, not this again.

A nonnative who used a form used by natives, such as "shrunk" for the preterit of "shrink," will not necessarily be told it's incorrect unless it's for a formal written paper (and maybe not even then). Foreign nonnative mistakes are by definition mistakes because they do not conform to native usage (no matter what language you're learning, if you use a construction or form alien to the language you're trying to acquire, it's a mistake). Thus you're lumping together two vastly different forms of mistakes as one and the same--nonnative mistakes and inaccurately labeled native "mistakes" which really aren't mistakes but perfectly valid forms even if they're not considered standard (especially for the written language).

Travis is right!!!

Learning English is also about LISTENING & UNDERSTANDING - not just speaking, reading and writing - so, students of English need to be introduced to, and to be able to recognise 'non-standard' English [dialects, if you like]...

Tommie - If you don't accept this then your English communication skills will be very limited.

In real life people do not use 'standard English.'

<It's not incorrect at all but is how many native speakers use the past tense of "shrink." >

So would you advise students of English to use it, Kirk?

Position - what a ridiculous question! Language teaches should not 'advise' but IMPART knowledge.

It is enough for the teacher to help the students to UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE between the two uses; it's up to the students to decide which one to use!

Someone who has been taught English well will know about register and formality - when and where to use shrunk/shrank and what colour this will give their discourse. Only then will they approach competence in the language, which is far more important than any spurious notions of correctness.

Language learning outside of the classroom, in an informal environment is as important as any formal instruction.

<Position - what a ridiculous question! *Language teaches should not 'advise' but IMPART knowledge. >

*What's a "language teaches" above?

<<So would you advise students of English to use it, Kirk?>>

If the native speakers around them they were trying to emulate (presumably well-regarded people) did. I would advise students to be aware of the difference and use it in formal writing but to not be surprised if they heard a different spoken form, even from prestigious native speakers. That's the case with a lot of language usage.

<<Someone who has been taught English well will know about register and formality - when and where to use shrunk/shrank and what colour this will give their discourse. Only then will they approach competence in the language, which is far more important than any spurious notions of correctness.>>

Exactly. Well put.

<<Language learning outside of the classroom, in an informal environment is as important as any formal instruction.>>

Definitely. Or at least it is if you ever want to speak the language.

_My_ dialect uses "shrank" as the past tense of "shrink" and is neither historical nor formal, just correct:)

travis. . . quit trying to sound so smart. just say it's incorrect, because it is. you keep saying native speakers-- what does that mean? english is derived from anglo saxon so NOTHING is native! just say that it's more coloquial. that's all it is.

Umm, come again? Please look up the definition of native before using a word you don't know the meaning of.

Here you go: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/native

Native speakers are speakers who have English as their mothertongue.

I think by analogy there could be used many more strong verbs. Strong verbs have more verve and vigor.

I knew someone who always used "bought" in both past tense and past participial usage. As in "He had bought it." It's way too terse and abrupt.

I use "boughten" as in "If I hadn't boughten it..." By analogy I like:
soughten, foughten, caughten, taughten, wroughten...and any other word that goes with those.

Similarly I promote:

fling, flang, flung...He flang the paper down...If he hadn't flung(en) the paper down...

bring, brang, brung;

On the analogy of: arise, arose, arisen...I propose: abide, abode, abidden...slide, slode, slidden...arrive. arrove, arriven...surmise, surmose, surmisen...etc

Hail strong verbs!

>>I use "boughten" as in "If I hadn't boughten it..." By analogy I like:
soughten, foughten, caughten, taughten, wroughten...and any other word that goes with those.<<

My dialect has such forms in informal speech, albeit not consistently.

>>Similarly I promote:

fling, flang, flung...He flang the paper down...If he hadn't flung(en) the paper down...

bring, brang, brung; <<

I've heard "flung", "brang", and "brung" used in such a fashion in Real Life myself. However, I've never heard "flang", as rather I've always heard "flung" being used also as a preterite form instead.

dive, dove, dived is the norm in Canadian English
in US, many teachers object to the form DOVE

>>Of course, there is a difference between a native speaker specifically intending to say something and them misspeaking, the latter being like anyone else doing so; in this case, if someone was really intending to say "collected" but accidentally said "collective", that would just be a slip of the tongue rather than anything else. <<

I agree. I knew a Turkish woman who confused "erotic" with "erratic."

By Travis:
My dialect has such forms in informal speech, albeit not consistently.


Where do you originate from Travis?

>>By Travis:
My dialect has such forms in informal speech, albeit not consistently.


Where do you originate from Travis?<<

I from and still live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Similar to "shrink, shrank, shrunk"...drink, drank, drunk...sink, sank, sunk...


Think, thank, thunk or think, thought, thoughten

[I just joking]

Re: bring, brang, brung _ as opposed to _ bring, brought, broughten


I remember reading in high school some story in which the colloquial dialect spoken by some of the characters did use "brang and brung".

I believe it was Appalachian. The speech and pronounciation of Appalachian English is supposed to be more original than current British English I've heard years ago from some source.