Ango-Saxons

Jim C, York   Fri May 12, 2006 7:28 pm GMT
I'm a really pro-European, and very much leftwing (I was getting really pissed off with the Blairite new Chairwoman of the Labour party last night, watching question time) But I feel the need for some sort of national identity, which would in my opinion give a new facet to our tourism industry. I think alot of Englishmen and Women feel the same, a need to conect with you past, whether it be a family, or cultural thing seems to be inbuilt into every humanbeing. The problem is that, far right groups have hijacked every cultural anchor the English have. The only thing left is The Queen really, but that is a British institution really. With the world cup coming soon, I see St.George's cross every where, but it still makes me feel uneasy, probably the reason you hardly see them at any other time. I think a rediscovery of English culture could be a very inclusive thing aswell, something to share proudly with the other cultures we have in this country.

If there was some sort of inclusive, official process to aid this from the government, I think you would find most English people, no matter what their background would embrace it, with the added benefit of taking these cultural anchors away from the right. Or has it just gone too far? have the far right bastards ruined it for every one? Regional identity seems to be untouched by this kind of thing, is that the best way to go? But how can that possibly be financialy viable?
Benjamin   Fri May 12, 2006 8:53 pm GMT
« But you'll have a blast in Germany in the summer, I'm sure. I like it a lot here...though I am intending to return to the UK sometime. Just not quite yet. :) »

The only time I've been to Germany before was when I went to a conference in Poland last year; we drove on the Autobahn from Frankfurt am Main. I have to say that I really loved seeing all the wind turbines everywhere. I'll probably see if I can go to Frankfurt and Stuttgart for the day as well. After spending two weeks doing the course in Heidelberg, my parents will come over and then we'll go to Nürnberg and München. I actually really want to go to Bamberg for totally superficial reasons, but it doesn't seem as though we will.

« Just one more point, about Scottish (and Welsh) national pride - do you think there's an element of anti-Englishness there? In some people at least? Could that count as xenophobia or bigotry? I've had some problems in Scotland with my English accent. »

I suppose that it could if it is genuine prejudice. But neither the Scottish National Party nor Plaid Cymru seem to promote an overtly bigoted agenda (in contrast to Sinn Féin, for example). I really don't know though. I'll be honest — despite all the places I've visited in Europe as a whole, I have only ever spend two part days in Scotland — once when I was two and once when I was eight.
Fredrik from Norway   Sat May 13, 2006 1:55 am GMT
Candy wrote:
«Fredrik, your posts are so lyrical! I love them! :-)»

Thanks, doing my best to tap onto the Celtic muse!


You guys should have seen Norwegian nationalism. Nationalism is a very positive concept in Norway. Norwegians will make you believe that racism occurs because of a lack of nationalism. Because why would people need to be racist if they were proud enough of their own country?


Could the problem with English patriotism and/or the lack of it be that it is so intimately connected to the countryside, to the rural England? Cricket on the village green and the lowing herd winding slowly o'er the lea?
The Industrial revolution led to a great immigration from Scotland, Wales and Ireland + imperial expansion and thus "British" was emphazised instead of "merry olde England".
Guest   Sat May 13, 2006 8:50 am GMT
Not only are there millions of English people with Celtic ancestry, there are millions with Norwegian ancestry, the latter resulting from invasion.

That should make young Fred feel better.
D6137CK   Sat May 13, 2006 12:52 pm GMT
Patriotism is simple loyalty and attachment to one's own country and sense of place.

Nationalism is a nasty perversion of this.

Loyalty is no longer enough; there must be terms and conditions on that loyalty.

Attachment is no longer enough; there must be overweening airs of superiority and arrogance as well.

A few years ago, I went into a small Internet cafe in Rome. It was run by a Somali. He had a simple poster on the wall by the cash register. Superimposed on the light blue background and white star of Somalia were these words:

WHATEVER HAPPENS, SOMALIA IS STILL MY COUNTRY.

That's patriotism.
greg   Sat May 13, 2006 3:33 pm GMT
Fredrik from Norway : « Norman effectiveness ».

Point de détail : l'élément francophone dans les Îles britanniques n'était pas exclusivement normand — loin s'en faut ! Il suffit de jeter un coup d'œil à l'ancienne langue outremanchaise pour s'en convaincre.