how to pronunce "u" in "cut" and "a

nick   Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:05 am GMT
It's sounds similar, I always pronunce longer "u" in "cut" to show the "a" sound in "father".
what's the proper way?
Kirk   Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:27 am GMT
Well that depends on what accent you're trying to achieve. I'm from the US (California) and I made a recording of how I pronounce those vowels:

http://media.putfile.com/cutcot

"father" /A/
"brother" /V/ (/V/ is really like schwa /@/ in American English in terms of position in the mouth)

"cot" /A/
"cut" /V/

"otter" /A/
"utter" /V/
Willy, el conquistador   Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:09 am GMT
U in "cut" sounds aw-'ah but uh. Don't say uh as a diphthong, shorten it.

O in "cot" sounds 'aw-ah but shortened without separating the two different sounds, making just one. This is in Great Britain.
O in "cot" sounds ah. This is in the United States of America.

A in "cat" sounds a relaxed ah in Great Britain but 'eh-ah shortened sound in the United States of America.

I in "kit" sounds 'ee-eh, not eh of pen. I've heard some dummies saying pen for pin, and this is completely erroneous.
Guest   Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:22 am GMT
I didn't understand a word Willy wrote except maybe something about diphthongs... like aw-ah, eh-ah, ee-eh. What do they allude to?
Willy   Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:10 am GMT
Guest, I don't care your mentality does not understand my explanation.
Willy   Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:17 am GMT
While smart messengers make sense about a theme, always someone tries to make wrong critics to contradict. This is a web site of those ones.

I don't find sense for contradict with none reason.
Guest   Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:19 am GMT
It's your willy-nilly grammar that detracts from any possibility of useful meaning.
Willy   Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:33 am GMT
<willy-nilly grammar>In a random manner ???? What a heck are you trying to say, detracted boy? It's possible you misunderstand or confound your ESOL teacher in this website. Please a polite student. Sit down, nerd. I'm gonna punch an F on your forehead.
Guest   Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:39 am GMT
Not just willy-nilly, but a willy as in a cock, cock-head!
e.g.:
1) "What a heck"
2) "detracted boy"
3) "confound your ESOL teacher in this website"
4) "Please a polite student."

http://www.uranther.com/funnypics/stfu.jpg
Billy   Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:45 am GMT
Yes I must to agreeing this with the Willy. He write the very good and I like. Guest not too understand well the hidden meanings in the messages.

Is good Willy. Keep going the good work.
Ed   Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:33 am GMT
I find your pronunciations of "otter" and "utter" rather curious as you seem to voice the consonants, so "utter" sounds more like "udder" to my ears. I have come across devoicing of consonants, eg D pronounced as T and B as P, but not vice versa.
Guest   Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:41 am GMT
It's utter with a plain old flap T. We've had this old discussion ad finitumly gadzookazillion number of times.
Kirk   Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:32 am GMT
<<I find your pronunciations of "otter" and "utter" rather curious as you seem to voice the consonants, so "utter" sounds more like "udder" to my ears. I have come across devoicing of consonants, eg D pronounced as T and B as P, but not vice versa.>>

In North American English underlying /t/ goes to [4], a voiced alveolar tap/flap (not actually a [d]) when it's intervocalic and follows a stressed vowel. There are a few other components of the rule but that's the main explanation.
nick   Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:35 am GMT
You guys confused me, so can anyone tell me the tongue positions when you pronunce the "u" in "cut" and "a" in "father", and maybe mouth open wide or narrown, anyway tell me how to make those two different sounds, please!
Kirk   Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:45 am GMT
<<You guys confused me, so can anyone tell me the tongue positions when you pronunce the "u" in "cut" and "a" in "father", and maybe mouth open wide or narrown, anyway tell me how to make those two different sounds, please!>>

Well, once again, it depends on what dialect you're trying to emulate. Those sounds are different in General American and Received Pronunciation (and other dialects, for that matter). I gave my own pronunciation (for those vowels of mine they happen to be within the norm of General American) so you could hear the difference. If you're going for General American, for "cut" the mouth should not be open as wide and the tongue should be in the middle of the mouth. For "father" the mouth should be more open and the tongue in the low back of the mouth.