when I dont know the gender

Arnaldo   Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:06 pm GMT
Hi. I need your help about how to address when I dont known the gender of a third person.

Lets take as example what John Doe says:

John Doe: I must go to the hospital to see my friend.


Wich one would be the right way to follow the talk (taking into account that Jane Doe doesn't know the gender of "the friend"?:

Jane Doe: Really? And how is [him | her | it ] feeling?



Thanks
Johnathan Mark   Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:18 am GMT
This is a point of awkwardness in the language. What I do is just take a guess (based on the person's gender, the amount of male and female friends they have, and subtle things about the way they say the sentence) and be ready to be corrected if I am wrong.

Sometimes I use "they" as a gender neutral, personal, singular pronoun (this is not correct according to prescriptive rules and you will never encounter it in writing, but I have noticed others do it besides me in speech). Never use "it" as a personal pronoun--this would be an insult.

This dilemma has become even more prevalent since the rise of political correctness. Whereas before it would suffice to say "he" "his" or "him", it now must be said "he or she," "his or her", or "him or her." In speech, many people (myself included) often say "they," "their" or "them."
Candy   Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:21 am GMT
I agree with Johnathan - I'd probably say 'how are they doing?', unless there were some hints from John Doe's conversation about what gender the person is likely to be. And definitely DON'T say 'it'!
Travis   Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:07 am GMT
>>This dilemma has become even more prevalent since the rise of political correctness. Whereas before it would suffice to say "he" "his" or "him", it now must be said "he or she," "his or her", or "him or her." In speech, many people (myself included) often say "they," "their" or "them."<<

At least around here, and probably throughout much of the whole of NAE, "they" is *the* pronoun used for individuals of unspecified or unknown gender in everyday language; I have even caught myself using it as a general pronoun for individuals whose gender *is* known but which is irrelevant, but this kind of usage is not nearly as common. Usages like "he or she" are simply circumlocations used in formal and literary language where individuals want to avoid "they", due to the influence of prescriptivism, and yet do not want to use deprecated forms like the use of "he" for individuals of unspecified gender, and have no place in normal everyday speech.

And yes, to repeat it once again, NEVER use "it" for anyone other than a baby, as such will be taken as basically stating that the individual referred to is less than human (which is quite insulting, to say the least).
Arnaldo   Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:29 pm GMT
Thanks you very much for you help folks!.
pabz   Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:37 am GMT
If this third person is a hypothetical person, they are usually referred to as "they", as discussed above. (And as I just did!)

But when the person is a real person, like John Doe's friend, and they have a gender and you just don't know what it is -- well, I think I would just ask "how is your friend feeling?"
Travis   Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:51 pm GMT
Why don't y'all Germanic and Romance language users get rid of genders?It's such an awful idea to address just a stupid pencil "a girl" or "a boy".Does a pancil have a sex?If so why don't they get in bed?