The relationships between the neo-Latin languages

guest   Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:37 am GMT
Francophilippe makes a good point.
OldAvatar   Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:02 pm GMT
"Potrivit studiului realizat de Prefectura Capitalei, 35,34% din numarul total de angajati ai institutiilor administrative si ONG-urilor vorbesc o limba de circulatie internationala. Cea mai cunoscuta este engleza. 64% dintre vorbitorii de limbi straine vorbesc engleza, urmata, in ordine de franceza (38%), germana (4%), italiana (4%), maghiara (4%), spaniola (3%), si rusa (3%)."

This is a quota of an official statistic, regarding the administrative employees (from Bucharest City Hall) able to speak a foreign language in Romania. I try to offer a proper translation.

According to the study done by Bucharest City Hall, 35,34% of the administrative employees are able to speak a foreign language. The most known foreign language is English, 64% of the employees being able to speak English. English is followed by French - 38%, German (4%), Italian (4%), Hungarian (4%), Russian (3%).

I can find other examples if that would be necessary.

Best regards
OldAvatar   Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:06 pm GMT
According to EUROSTAT data, 26% of Romanians do speak English as their second language, comparing with only 17% (decreasing fast) who prefer French.
nico   Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:49 pm GMT
it is a fact every romanian and french know, romanians learn french early, and french is more spoken in Romania than english. This is of course for political reason.
Ikasi   Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:35 pm GMT
The Rumanian has many similar words with French (22,12 % of the Rumanian vocabulary, French words taken in the XIX century and only 0,07 % of English words),


<< "Potrivit studiului realizat de Prefectura Capitalei, 35,34% din numarul total de angajati ai institutiilor administrative si ONG-urilor vorbesc o limba de circulatie internationala. Cea mai cunoscuta este engleza. 64% dintre vorbitorii de limbi straine vorbesc engleza, urmata, in ordine de franceza (38%), germana (4%), italiana (4%), maghiara (4%), spaniola (3%), si rusa (3%)."

This is a quota of an official statistic, regarding the administrative employees (from Bucharest City Hall) able to speak a foreign language in Romania. I try to offer a proper translation.

According to the study done by Bucharest City Hall, 35,34% of the administrative employees are able to speak a foreign language. The most known foreign language is English, 64% of the employees being able to speak English. English is followed by French - 38%, German (4%), Italian (4%), Hungarian (4%), Russian (3%).

I can find other examples if that would be necessary.

Best regards >>

Ok, but on the whole the English speakers in Romania exceeds the French speakers from only 5% (29% of English speakers , of 24% French speakers …)
Alvarado   Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:54 pm GMT
The top ten languages of the world are as follows (in order of first-speaking population):

Chinese Mandarin 13.69%
Spanish 5.05%
English 4.84%
Hindi 2.82%
Portuguese 2.77%
Bengali 2.68%
Russian 2.27%
Japanese 1.99%
German 1.49%
Chinese Wu 1.21%

One thing is for sure...of all these languages, English, Mandarin, Spanish, and Portuguese are growing in leaps and bounds in terms of 1st language speakers. All of the other major world languages, although not gowing as rapidly as the above mentioned 4, are certainly not in decline either. As long as there are people being born everyday in Russia, Germany and France, and wherever those languages are spoken, then those languages too are growing, just not as fast as English, Mandarin, Spanish and Portuguese are. So what...languages have evolved this way since time immemorial. A lingua franca today, does not guarantee that it will be the lingua franca of tomorrow. Let's not forget that Greek was the lingua franca of the Mediterranean basin at one time.

When it comes to langauges, words like prestige and utility are very subjective. Lingua francas do not always replace local existing languages, because if they did, then Latin would have remained the medium of communciation for most of Europe to this day, which it has not. Although Latin still lives on because it morphed into the present day Romance languages. In fact, most European tongues have words of Latin origin, including English.

English will not hold out forever as the lingua franca of the world, because things are always in a state of flux - nothing stays the same as things are always changing. History has taught us that... empires have risen and fallen i.e., ancient Greece, Rome, Nazi's, Soviet Union. The United States will fall too - it's just a matter of time.
Francophilippe   Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:07 am GMT
Potrivit studiului realizat de Prefectura Capitalei, 35,34% din numarul total de angajati ai institutiilor administrative si ONG-urilor vorbesc o limba de circulatie internationala. Cea mai cunoscuta este engleza. 64% dintre vorbitorii de limbi straine vorbesc engleza, urmata, in ordine de franceza (38%), germana (4%), italiana (4%), maghiara (4%), spaniola (3%), si rusa (3%)."

This is a quota of an official statistic, regarding the administrative employees (from Bucharest City Hall) able to speak a foreign language in Romania. I try to offer a proper translation.

According to the study done by Bucharest City Hall, 35,34% of the administrative employees are able to speak a foreign language. The most known foreign language is English, 64% of the employees being able to speak English. English is followed by French - 38%, German (4%), Italian (4%), Hungarian (4%), Russian (3%).

I can find other examples if that would be necessary."

Hey OldAvatar, it seems that this data text is not written by a Rumanian because it uses the English variant of the Latin alphabet not the Rumanian variant. Can you show me the website of this.

Besides it is stated in what you posted "According to the study done by Bucharest City Hall, 35,34% of the administrative employees are able to speak a foreign language. The most known foreign language is English, 64% of the employees being able to speak English. English is followed by French - 38%, German (4%), Italian (4%), Hungarian (4%), Russian (3%). ". That's it there are more administrative employees who are able to speak English than French. But outside the administrative unit this is not the case. And besides, French and Rumanian are sister languages. Their languages are more closely related to each other than to English so it is far more easier for a Rumanian to get fluent in French. In addition Rumanians admire the French culture and language.

If you have only seen the footage of the Ceausescu's downfall. The people being interviewed there spoke French very well not English.
Guest   Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:27 am GMT
<<Potrivit studiului realizat de Prefectura Capitalei, 35,34% din numarul total de angajati ai institutiilor administrative si ONG-urilor vorbesc o limba de circulatie internationala. Cea mai cunoscuta este engleza. 64% dintre vorbitorii de limbi straine vorbesc engleza, urmata, in ordine de franceza (38%), germana (4%), italiana (4%), maghiara (4%), spaniola (3%), si rusa (3%)." >>

To OldAvatar: I agree with Francophilippe. The text above is doubtable. I don't see the Rumanian characters ş, ă, and ţ in that message of yours.
Carlos   Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:23 am GMT
"Allons enfants de la francophonie, la jour de gloire est arrive!
Contre nous de la anglophonie, l'etandard sanglant est levee!"

Guys, Give over! French is important and dignified enough as it is, you don't have to hammer on about it being what everybody knows it isn't: the world's most important vehicle of communication.

You are making it really difficult to believe that French people are not really that Chauvinistic.
nico   Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:34 am GMT
Carlos,

french aren't chauvinistic, you believe in clichés and of course this is your problem if you believe in clichés.

Nobody who is here said the french was the most important language or the most important culture. The french is an important foreign language in Romania, i can assure you that by the way my mother is romanian. The same occurs with spanish in France whre it is the most spoken language in France after french of course, it does not mean the spanish is the most important language in Europe. Those are facts, only facts. The fact you believe in clichés show just how you can't accept some facts wich are undoubtable.
OldAvatar   Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:21 am GMT
Most Romanian websites do not use diacritics because it will limit the access. An user is supposed to have CE characters support installed in order to read them and not all computers have that. Ceausescu downfall was almost 20 years ago. Romania is completely another country now.

French language used to be the beloved language of Romanians. Unlike Britain, for example, France, as an European power, always backed up Romanians and always wanted to exist a powerful Latinised state in this part of Europe, so it can deal with former other European superpowers, like Russia, Austro-Hungarian Empire or even Germany. France always helped Romania, economically, politically, military and probably most important, culturally. Romanians are always appreciative to French people due to these facts. So, there was a great tradition of speaking French and it used to be somehow considered as the second national language. A feeling of brotherhood was established between two countries. Romania copied the French system and did it pretty well till the Second World War. Bucharest used to be named Paris of the Orient or Little Paris. In the interbelic period it has been changed into a cosmopolitan city, following French standards.

All I'm trying to say is that in Romania, nowadays, French is rapidly losing ground to English, at all levels. If you do a study about Romanian French speakers, you will see that Romanian French speakers average age is significantly higher than English speakers's. It is not an offence to French language. French is still loved in Romania, it is just that young people find English more useful than French, at least, for now, that's all.

Here's a link:
http://www.euractiv.ro/uniunea-europeana/articles%7CdisplayArticle/articleID_8336/Trei-sferturi-din-sefii-institutiilor-publice-si-ONG-urilor-vorbesc-o-limba-straina.html


Regards
nico   Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:42 pm GMT
carlos,

you are right, english is more and more popular today, as you said, there was (and is) a long tradition of friendship between France and Romania and we should add France, Italy and Romania. These 3 countries share a lot of common things.
Carlos   Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:34 pm GMT
I do not believe in clichés... I'm not easy pray to stereotypes, but sometimes it is difficult not to be tempted to use them as a weapon. Of late, whenever languages are discussed in a forum, I've come across French people claiming their language is more important internationally than Spanish (arguable) or English (ridiculous), and their claims are often based more on their self-perception or limited personal experience than on hard figures or serious studies.

In actual fact, I admire the efforts of the French to maintain their language pure and free from English adulteration (I wish we would do the same in Spain), I like their country and I like them, but some of them take their pride way too far.
Guest   Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:16 am GMT
Hey OldAvatar,

I just accessed the website you posted http://www.euractiv.ro/uniunea-europeana/articles%7CdisplayArticle/articleID_8336/Trei-sferturi-din-sefii-institutiilor-publice-si-ONG-urilor-vorbesc-o-limba-straina.html.

The original 2nd paragraph is:
"Potrivit studiului realizat de Prefectura Capitalei, 35,34% din numarul total de angajati ai institutiilor administrative si ONG-urilor vorbesc o limba de circulatie internationala. Cea mai cunoscuta este engleza. Mai mult de jumatate dintre vorbitorii de limbi straine vorbesc engleza, urmata, in ordine de franceza (38%), germana (4%), italiana (4%), maghiara (4%), spaniola (3%), si rusa (3%)."

You posted:
"Potrivit studiului realizat de Prefectura Capitalei, 35,34% din numarul total de angajati ai institutiilor administrative si ONG-urilor vorbesc o limba de circulatie internationala. Cea mai cunoscuta este engleza. 64% dintre vorbitorii de limbi straine vorbesc engleza, urmata, in ordine de franceza (38%), germana (4%), italiana (4%), maghiara (4%), spaniola (3%), si rusa (3%)."

Compare the original and what you posted and you will find out that
"Cea mai cunoscuta este engleza. 64% dintre vorbitorii de limbi straine vorbesc engleza"

Oh please be realistic don't take everything away what belongs to others
because you have most.
Guest   Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:36 am GMT
OldAvatar, French maybe losing to English but not so rapidly. Romanians are not like the people of other countries who go gaga over English.

Maybe there are more people who study English in Romania than any other languages but it does not mean they will not be able to speak French. In fact a Romanian or Portuguese speaker can teach himself how to speak French without enrolling in a language school by listening and as if he's learning another dialect without so much effort since their languages are so similar to each other.