Do you native English-speakers have difficulty w/other Germa

greg   Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:04 pm GMT
zxczxc : « We're all still rather reserved in comparison (...) ».

Les Anglais, réservés ???!!!...

Qu'est-ce que la réserve pour toi ?
JR   Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:08 pm GMT
Well I think the reason for people on here 'denying English it's germanic roots', is that, like you say, it takes a considerable amount of time to get the hang of German grammar for an English speaker, as compared a Romance languages that have almost identical grammar (for the most part). Most of the people in these forums speak Romance languages and I would assume are used to languages of the same family to be as closely related to each other as are the Romance languages. This is not always the case, notably the Germanic languages, which have the most representation on this forum apart from the Romance langauges, but just about all other language families.
LAA - Juaquin en la caja!   Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:44 pm GMT
"Well I think the reason for people on here 'denying English it's germanic roots', is that, like you say, it takes a considerable amount of time to get the hang of German grammar for an English speaker, as compared a Romance languages that have almost identical grammar (for the most part). Most of the people in these forums speak Romance languages and I would assume are used to languages of the same family to be as closely related to each other as are the Romance languages. This is not always the case, notably the Germanic languages, which have the most representation on this forum apart from the Romance langauges, but just about all other language families."

Yes, I would say that is true. But even among the other major Germanic languages, like Dutch and German, you could say that they share a closer relationship than they do to English. English to me, seems like an outcast in the Germanic family. The phonology and lexicology of English is very distant from the other Germanic languages.
Uriel   Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:24 am GMT
Well, I basically see Europeans as Europeans (including the British), and I don't really equate "Europeanness" with membership in the EU -- it's just geographical, for me. But my (German) stepbrother was telling me all about the headaches associated with the adoption of the euro, and when I mentioned that the UK hadn't adopted it for just those reasons, he just smiled and said, "Well, that's because they are British." As if that explained everything!

When I countered that the British were just as European as he was, he and his mother both shook their heads and laughed. "No, they're BRITISH. They're not the same as the rest of us! They don't think they are, and we don't think they are, either!"
Ayazid   Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:36 pm GMT
Well, the northern American culture is Anglo-Saxon based and most immigrants to USA have come from Great Britain, Ireland, Germany, Scandinavia and Poland, so contemporary Northern Americans are culturally and ethnically akin to Northern Europeans. On the other hand, Latin Americans of predominantly European origin as Argentinians, South Brazilians and uruguaians are mostly of Spanish, Portuguese and Italian origin so they are usually very similar to their "forefathers" in Southern Europe.
LAA   Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:58 pm GMT
<<Well, the northern American culture is Anglo-Saxon based and most immigrants to USA have come from Great Britain, Ireland, Germany, Scandinavia and Poland, so contemporary Northern Americans are culturally and ethnically akin to Northern Europeans. On the other hand, Latin Americans of predominantly European origin as Argentinians, South Brazilians and uruguaians are mostly of Spanish, Portuguese and Italian origin so they are usually very similar to their "forefathers" in Southern Europe. >>

Well, what about the Russians, Italians, Greeks, Armenians, Arabs, Indians, Persians, East Asians, Pacific Islanders, and all of the Latin Americans which have emigrated to the U.S., and have formed large minorities? What about the Black population of African origin, which comprises nearly 12% of the American population?

If you want to only compare the "White" population of America, this I understand. Although this is a very broad term and in no way represents America as a whole. But for a foreigner, it is easy to imagine how one would think of the "White" Americans as the "traditional" or "historical" ethnic group of the US. That is true, and I see where you're coming from. As for the "White" population of America, you can say that they are truly "mutts". The USA was founded by a few million colonists of British Isles origin. Most of them were of English descent, but many were also Irish, Welsh, and Scottish. They were of a predominantly Anglo-Saxon, protestant culture. Yet, ever since their independence, waves of immigrants have flooded into their harbors and stampeded accross their borders. So much so, that the additional national groups surpassed the original population in numbers.

You can say that the foundationial ethnic group of White Americans is Northern European, or more precisely, north-western European. But in addition to that, there was a very large injection of southern and eastern European peoples within the "White" population.
LAA   Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:05 pm GMT
Why do Europeans look different from Americans? I live in the U.S., and I am in contact with European tourists everyday. And I can spot them from a mile off! They don't even have to speak one word to me, and I know they are from Europe! There is something about the way they carry themselves, but I think it's the look in their eyes. They have this entirely different look in their eyes. Is it a difference in the water we drink, or in the air?

Ayazid,

That's another thing. Since White Americans are so mixed, they don't, broadly speaking, look like most Dutchmen or Scandanvians, or Germans, etc. I can spot those off from a mile as well, without even seeing their eyes. They have very light features, and are usually rather tall. The same goes for southern Europeans. They have very distinct facial features, even if they have light colored skin and hair. But most White Americans in the U.S. look like a mix between the two.
zxczxc   Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:33 pm GMT
Greg:

Les Anglais, réservés ???!!!...

Qu'est-ce que la réserve pour toi ?

I think I understand what you mean, but until you say it in a language which bathes at least once a fortnight I won't dignify it with a response.

Anyway, the Americans are very mongrel Europeans, having genes from all over the Continent.

And Uriel, I don't consider myself especially European. The Continent is still separate from us, and we have only God to thank for that.
zxczxc   Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:13 am GMT
Meiner Meinung nach bin ich zuallererst Engländer und Brite auch. Unsere Geschichte als eine von Europa getrennt werdende Insel ist wichtig, und es ist uns klar, dass Engländer und Festländer unähnlich sind. Sogar wenn England und das europäische Festland verbunden wären, gibt es noch viele Unterschieden; zum Beispiel unsere Philosophie und politisches Denken. Obwohl wir alle weiße Haut haben und gleichartige Sprachen sprechen, glauben die Briten, sie seien anders, weil in der Vergangenheit wir uns in Krieg mit europäischen Ländern befinden haben: Europa war der Feind. In der Tat werden unsere Kinder wenige europäischen Fremdsprachen gelehrt (am wenigsten nicht besonders gut) und folglich sind die Verbindungen zwischen unsere Länder nicht immer uns klar.
Guest   Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:31 am GMT
"glauben die Briten, sie seien anders, weil in der Vergangenheit wir uns in Krieg mit europäischen Ländern befinden haben"

ja, und genau aus diesem Grunde erkennen auch die Festländer an, dass ihr anders seid: Weil ihr noch in der Vergangenheit lebt und aus irgendeinem Grund darin gefangen zu scheinen seid...nicht sehr progressiv!
Guest   Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:33 am GMT
*..zu sein scheint...
greg   Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:45 am GMT
The Continent is still separate from us, and we have only God to thank for that. »
Et tu dois remercier Mitterrand et Thatcher d'avoir relié ton île au continent.



zxczxc : « Meiner Meinung nach bin ich zuallererst Engländer und Brite auch. Unsere Geschichte als eine von Europa getrennt werdende Insel ist wichtig (...) ».
Und meiner Meinung nach sind weder England noch der Vereinigte Königreich Großbritannien und Nordirland überhaupt keine Inseln...
Uriel   Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:51 am GMT
<<Well, the northern American culture is Anglo-Saxon based and most immigrants to USA have come from Great Britain, Ireland, Germany, Scandinavia and Poland, so contemporary Northern Americans are culturally and ethnically akin to Northern Europeans. >>

According to the 2000 US census, Americans break down as follows, Ayazid:

0.1% Hawaiian or Pacific islander

3% Asian

12% Black

13% Hispanic (of any race)

2.5% Multiracial (of any two or more races)

70% White

However, the census defines "white" as being of EUROPEAN, MIDDLE EASTERN, or NORTH AFRICAN origin. This would cover not only Italians, Germans, and Poles, but also most Arabs, Persians, Afghans, Russians -- indeed, a fair chunk of Africa and half of Asia!

And of those who are white of European descent, as LAA mentions, many are of eastern or southern European descent, not just northern. Many are of mixed northern and southern European descent, like myself.
Arthur   Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:57 pm GMT
>zxczxc Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:13 am GMT
Meiner Meinung nach bin ich zuallererst Engländer und Brite auch.
Bis zu dem Punkt sagt keiner etwas dagegen....

>Unsere Geschichte als eine von Europa getrennt werdende Insel ist wichtig, und es ist uns klar, dass Engländer und Festländer unähnlich sind.
Diese Fragmentierung gilt jeweils auch innerhalb des europäischen Erdteils. Oder bist Du damit der Meinung, alle Europäern sind so ähnlich untereinander so daß man von Festland vs. Insel sprechen kann? wenn Dein Antwort "ja" ist, dann bist Du total naïv...


>Sogar wenn England und das europäische Festland verbunden wären, gibt es noch viele Unterschieden; zum Beispiel unsere Philosophie und politisches Denken.
Mein obiger Komentar gilt auch hier dazu.

> Europa war der Feind.
Innerhalb Europas gab es auch immer diesselbe Situationen. Nichts macht euch anders oder besonders zu Opfern. Frag einen Schotte, Ire oder Walisier werd der "Feind" ist...

>In der Tat werden unsere Kinder wenige europäischen Fremdsprachen gelehrt...
Und das ist wirklich Schade, denn vorallem jemand wie Du, der als Engländer eine fremde Sprache kann, sollte es schon bemerkt haben, welches unvergleichbare Gefühl es ist, wenn man die Sprache jemandes anderen spricht, und wie näher man ihn empfindet.

Kurzum, alles was man verpassen kann, wegen dummen politischen Einsichten...
zxczxc   Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:08 pm GMT
I'm not personally of the opinion that Europe is necessarily the enemy and what not, but that's the longheld view in the UK and specifically England. The Continent represented something wholly foreign and un-British. After all, some of us still use the phrase "The wogs start at Calais". And as far as most of us are concerned, one can talk of our nation being separate from Europe, even if the picture isn't quite as crystal clear as that.

Anyway, Germany and other countries obviously do have other cultures which I'm interested in, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered to stay awake through seven years of German lessons at school. But yeah, as a whole British society is glad just to jet off to Spain once a year; other, more haute couture pursuits are not...well, pursued.