Reflexive pronouns

Fred   Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:00 pm GMT
>>
The objective forms "It is me/him/etc" are by far more common in vernacular speech, to the extent that the subjective forms "It is I/he/etc" sound stilted or archaic. I'd wager that very few people, when knocking on a friend's door, would say, "Hey, it's I!", or "Hey, it's we!"<<

Hey, I do it all the time. But I also use thou and ye in everyday speech, so don't listen to me.
12FRC   Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:39 am GMT
"The objective forms 'It is me/him/etc' are by far more common in vernacular speech, to the extent that the subjective forms 'It is I/he/etc' sound stilted or archaic."

Lazar:

You are absolutely correct. This is a non-issue. The "copula" argument for "it is I" is mere grammatical pedantry.

The "it's me" construction is entirely acceptable. English speakers have been using it for centuries. It's time to move on with this issue.
Guest   Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:51 pm GMT
<<Hey, I do it all the time. But I also use thou and ye in everyday speech, so don't listen to me.>>

Quit it! That's stupid and pretentious. "It's me" is correct.
Guest   Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:10 pm GMT
This cage is everlastyng fire
That I am ordeynid in to dwell.
Hit is me gevyn unto my hire,
Evyr to bren in the fyre of hell.
This am I feterd with fendes fell,
And ther to abide as best in stall.
Ther is no tonge my care can tell —
Beware ye have not such a fall!
Adam   Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:48 pm GMT
"Why is the standard form of the reflexive pronoun "himself" and not "hisself"?"

That's because there are two meanings of the feminine "her" but only one for the masculine "him".

We say:

"Let us congratulate HER."

"It is HER dress."

BUT...

"Let's congratulate HIM."

"It is HIS dress."
Adam   Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:49 pm GMT
Although not many people have the opportunity to say "It is his dress".
Pash   Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:07 am GMT
<Guest Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:45 am GMT

The predicate of a clause whose verb is "to be" is in the nominative case. Therefore, "I" must be used. >

Do you use "it is I"?
Pash   Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:09 am GMT
<BUT...

"Let's congratulate HIM."

"It is HIS dress." >

Is he a transvestite? ;-)
Guest   Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:54 am GMT
"It is me" and "It is I" are both wrong. It should be "It am I".
buddhaheart   Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:57 am GMT
According to modern structuralists, the subject of “It is I” is ‘it’, not 'I' by using the tag-test even though 'It' is not the performer or the doer. Therefore the be verb in this sentence should be 'is' not 'am'. “It is I” is and has been the accepted version in formal usage. “It is me” is common in conversational English.

If you accept “It am I”, do you accept “It are you.”?
Guest   Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:04 pm GMT
<<If you accept “It am I”, do you accept “It are you.”?>>

"It are you" is the correct form. "It is you" is wrong.
Travis   Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:52 pm GMT
>>"It are you" is the correct form. "It is you" is wrong.<<

Sure... And "ye are" is correct and "you are" is wrong too?
Buddhaheart   Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:43 am GMT
<<"It are you" is the correct form. "It is you" is wrong. >>


Forgive me for my ignorance, I’ve yet to be convinced by any grammar texts or other references I've got or could get my hand on that "It am I” or “It are you" is the correct form.

Is this some new grammar? Is this just your own conviction or insight? Can you kindly share some this insight or some useful references w/ us on this so we could be enlightened as well?
zzz   Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:45 am GMT
>> Sure... And "ye are" is correct and "you are" is wrong too? <<

Of course. "Ye" is used for the nominative.
Guest   Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:17 am GMT
"It are ye." is the best way to say it, IMO.