Using "until now" is tye present perfect

Pos   Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:14 am GMT
If the first sentence is acceptable, why not the second?

Jane has lived in Paris until now.

Sally has lost her keys until now.
Jim   Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:59 am GMT
Because living is something you do over a duration of time whilst loosing something is something you do at one point in time.
Calliope   Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:57 pm GMT
Since it shows a duration of time, shouldn't it be "has been living in Paris" (if she still lives there) or "lived in Paris" (if she lives there no more - because we specify when she left - now)..? I thought continuity is demostrated by contiuous tenses (eg present perfect continuous - has been living). Simple perfect tenses are supposed to show a non-defined time frame... so in my mind it should be

a) Jane has lived in Paris. (sometime in the past - we don't care about the time but about the fact)

b) Jane has been living in Paris (she is still living there)

c) Jane lived in Paris (until a specific point in time - but doesn't live there anymore)

I know native speakers (of any language) don't open a grammar book in order to speak, so rules are not set in stone, but grammatically speaking, "has lived in Paris until now" sounds incorrect to me... and I could very well be wrong, so I'm interested in comments.
Pash   Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:49 pm GMT
<Since it shows a duration of time, shouldn't it be "has been living in Paris" (if she still lives there) or "lived in Paris" (if she lives there no more - because we specify when she left - now)..?>

We can also say: "How long has Jane lived in Paris? (knowing that she still lives there and has no plans to move). It's the present perfect of "up to now".