origin of 'kein' in German

redjack   Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:15 pm GMT
Would it be safe to say that 'Kein' is cognate with English 'No-one'?
They don't seem very similar but as far as I know, kein comes from Old High German Nihein which does sound more alike no-one. Anyone have any thoughts?
emilio   Sun Dec 17, 2006 8:55 am GMT
this question is very interesting. I'm actually curious myself...
The English term "no-one" or "none" which comes from OE "nan" is cognate with German "nein". German "kein" is cognate with Dutch "geen". I believe this word is something the English language had lost.
Ion   Sun Dec 17, 2006 6:42 pm GMT
Nein is No; kein is nothing, none, no - depending of the object of reference. To translate it right in English we need to understand the context. Example:

Ich habe keine Lust, became in English: I'm not in the mud...or

Keiner mochte Fussbal spielen... None /nobody wanted to play football...

Ich habe keine Ahnung - I have no Idea...

Ich habe kein Geld/ keine Zeit - I have no money/ time.

Kein Mensh = nobody;
Kein Geld/keine Zeit = no money/no time
Ich kenne keinen = I do not know anybody, anyone;
keinerlei =no.. of any kind
keiner von beiden = neither of them (two)
hab' keine Angst = don't be afraid

So, as you see, the context plays a role here while translating in English

other than that, thinking just at KEIN as Staff, things, like keines, keiner, keine, in English is NONE, NOT (a single) ONE.

Kein is more concluding, clearer than other form of negation in German.

Ich habe keine Ahnung is transmitting a more precise message (at lest in my view) than Ich weiss nicht - I have no idea - against: I don't know.
There is no doubts that I have no clue about something...while, I don't know, leaves a possibility to know later...like..I don't know (now but...


I don't know if it helps.
Ion   Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:00 pm GMT
I forget the mian question. The origin: No idea how too form but It is German for sure!
Ion   Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:14 pm GMT
Please, ignore the last statement...I don’t know how it has been typed so...unreadable

I just wanted to say that I have no Idea how KEIN has been created, but I know that it is 100%, German!
Kelly   Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:17 am GMT
and what is the origin of DOCH?
Ion   Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:28 pm GMT
I said..is German the rest of the question is a non sens...is like trying to find out the origin of teh word "word"
Guest   Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:08 pm GMT
"doch" in German is cognate with English "though," which is a fusion of Old English "theah" ("nevertheless") and Old Norse "tho"

German uses "doch" as an emphasis word, but you can still substitute it for "though" in English and it still kinda makes sense.
Ion   Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:32 am GMT
Guest, Kelly has asked about the origin of the word DOCH and not with what it is cognate with English, I guess.

Kelly,

Speaking about cognate with English,
I might be wrong but I consider Doch being a shorter form of Dennoch which can be associated in English with YET, BUT, HOWEVER, AFTER ALL and yes, with THOUGH as well, as GUEST mentioned above.

Kelly, If I have to speculate DOCH's origin, I would say that it is coming from DENNOCH - yet, after all...

but dennoch itself came from DENN (because) and NOCH, (still,more)...but don't take it by Grant!
Guest   Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:57 pm GMT
The origin of German "Doch" is Old High German "doh" ("nevertheless).

It is not attested to any other word or contraction.
zxczxc   Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:16 pm GMT
Ion's English makes me laugh: "Don't take it by Grant!"
Ion   Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:03 pm GMT
Maybe, but that's because I'm a Romanian and my mother language is Romanian....

I noticed the mistake, (I knew the correct form - for Grant ) - but again, it was just a mistake... I thought, the people with something, except air in their heads, would look for the message what I want to transmit and not at the form it is written...

I made many mistakes of this kind in my postings; I noticed them right after the post took its place on the forum; I was always conscientious about their existence but I considered not necessary to load the space on this forum with noting by making words/expressions corrections...

On the other hand, I'm happy with the English level; I make me understandable, I can very well communicate with each logical and balanced person. I'm especially happy thinking that I started to learn English two years ago.

Anyway, learning English is improving and pretty soon I feel, I could control this language as good as I control German, French, Spanish, Italian, Greek, but never like Romanian.

It is important for me reading books written in original. That's all I'm using the languages for because as an engineer, German and Romanian are more than enough. I'm not an interpreter, I'm not a translator to need a superior control over languages although I'm trying it; I like reading since I first discovered the BOOK.

I'm sorry, I realize that probably some of my interventions on this forum made you mad about me but you have to understand that you cannot have an opinion exchange when you bring up nothing but insults...

Finally, to come on this forum and to say that you laughed about my English, is childish, believe me and I hope , you are a kid indeed, otherwise you might need some behaviour reconsiderations..


I wish you sincerely, happy holidays!
Guest   Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:16 pm GMT
Ion, your English is just fine, and very good as well!

I understood what you meant, and you're absolutely right--that's what matters most.

(even if you DID disagree with me about the origin of DOCH ; )
Ion   Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:14 pm GMT
Guest,

Thank you for your appreciation words.

I didn't and I don't disagree with you about the origin of DOCH, because, as I said, I only speculate that it might come from DENNOCH...you might be right, I cannot contradict you on this matter...

What I mentioned in the before last posting was referring to Kelly's question. She was looking for word's origin and not for its cognate with English as you previously have posted. That was my observation!

Best personal regards,

und Frohe Weihnachten und Gute Rutsch!
Guest   Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:48 pm GMT
Ja, das weiss ich schon.
Alles gut.

Und Frohe Weihnachten zu Ihnen auch!