Galician and Portuguese

JR   Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:17 am GMT
I have finally listened to all of them and I have come to the, somewhat expected, conclusion that...

The recordings from Portugal sound very portuguese, I can make out most of what they're saying and sometimes get the main idea (I'm a native Spanish speaker, I dont speak Portuguese). However, when its actual Portuguese, I can not make out anything but a few words. ALthough written the language is understandable, spoken only a few words I can catch, especially when speaking as fast as the people in the recordings did.

However, the recordings from Galiza sound very spanish. Only a few differences in the lettering (mas to mais, vas to vais, nuestro to nostro, etc.), which are insignificant when heard without reading it.

The language pronnunciation is largely biased on the region where it is spoken, it appears to me.
(Then again.... Portuguese when pronnounced using Castillan pronnunciations would sound almost the same)
Gringo   Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:18 am GMT
««The recordings from Portugal sound very portuguese, I can make out most of what they're saying and sometimes get the main idea (I'm a native Spanish speaker, I dont speak Portuguese). However, when its actual Portuguese, I can not make out anything but a few words.»»

Why? Are the recordings not "actual" Portuguese? What kind of Portuguese you think it is?
What do you define as "actual" Portuguese?
Hellas   Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:35 pm GMT
Continental Portuguese is just weird. It lost the sonority of Romance languages becoming more ''Slavic'' due to strong consonantism.
JR   Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:55 pm GMT
<<Why? Are the recordings not "actual" Portuguese? What kind of Portuguese you think it is?
What do you define as "actual" Portuguese?>>

The recordings of Galician, as spoken in Portugal, compared to the recordings of Galician recorded in Spain, to me, sound more like Portuguese than the recordings from Spain. I believe that the region where the language (Galician) is spoken influences the way it is pronnounced, because the recordings from Spain were more "understandable" to me than the recordings from Portugal (without reading the actual dialogue they were peaking, because I can barely understand spoken Portuguese ).


I was not talking about the Portuguese language, rather, the Galician language, spoken in Portugal. Hope that cleared things up.
Gringo   Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:47 pm GMT
Hellas
««Continental Portuguese is just weird. It lost the sonority of Romance languages becoming more ''Slavic'' due to strong consonantism.»»

Strange thing you comment only about Continental Portuguese, I have heard many people say the same thing about Brazilian Portuguese, that it sounds like slavic, seems it also lost the sonority of Romance languages.



JR
««I was not talking about the Portuguese language, rather, the Galician language, spoken in Portugal.»»

That is what I am not understanding, there is no recording of Galician language spoken in Portugal in any of those samples, it is plain Portuguese, unless you are saying Galician is Portuguese (or Portuguese is Galician.)
John   Sun Apr 02, 2006 5:12 pm GMT
Galician is Portugueses language but Castilian acenpted.
Gringo   Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:51 am GMT
««a few linguists even consider Portuguese to be a "hayseed" dialect of Spanish»»

Most linguists do not know any history. Most can not tell the difference between Spain and Hispania, or that Castilla was a county in the Kingdom of Leon.

««Italian and Irish Gaelic are always talked about as though they were one language.»»

Maybe you could give a link.
Gringo   Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:16 am GMT
Portuguese + Spanish the fastest growing western languages
Marinheiro Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:13 pm GMT

You noticed the link you provided said that medieval galego-português was a misture of Portuguese and Spanish? LOL (right! Latin is a mixture of Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Romanian and French)


»"Nós falamos como homens compassados." Foi esse português, com os fonemas totalmente pronunciados, quase manemolentes, que chegou ao Brasil e se conservou..."

"Ao fim do século 16 e no início do século 17, o português de Portugal sofreu uma enfatização da sílaba tônica. Para que esse efeito se desse, era necessário `comer' as vogais na pronúncia; isso se deu depois que o português chegou ao Brasil"«

After Portuguese arrived to Brazil? Interesting, I suppose everybody pronounced all the vowels. Just try to read with the Brazilian accent, just pay attention to the missing vowels. Portuguese either started to 'eat' the vowels long before the discovery of Brazil or Brazil was discovered a few centuries before we were told.

Mandad' ei comigo,
ca ven meu amigo:
e irei, madr' , a Vigo.
Comigu' ei mmandado,
ca ven meu amado:
e irei, madr' , a Vigo.
Ca ven meu amigo
e ven san' e vivo:
e irei, madr' , a Vigo.
Ca ven meu amado
e ven viv' e sano:
e irei, madr' , a Vigo.
Ca ven san' e vivo
e d' el-rei, amigo:
e irei, madr' , a Vigo.
Ca ven viv' e sano
e d' el-rei privado:
e irei, madr' , a Vigo.
[Martim Codax -XIII]

--------------------------------
Quer'eu em maneira de proençal
fazer agora un cantar d'amor,
e querrei muit'i loar mia senhor
a que prez nen fremusura non fal,
nen bondade; e mais vos direi en:
tanto a fez Deus comprida de ben
que mais que todas las do mundo val.
Ca mia senhor quiso Deus fazer tal,
quando a faz, que a fez sabedor
de todo ben e de mui gran valor,
e con todo est'é mui comunal
ali u deve; er deu-lhi bon sen,
e des i non lhi fez pouco de ben,
quando non quis que lh'outra foss'igual.
[D. DinisXIII-XIV]


----------------------
AMA: E que falas tu lá só?
MOÇA: Falo cá co'esta cama.
AMA: E essa cama, bem, que há?
Mostra-m'essa roca cá:
siquer fiarei um fio.
Leixou-me aquele fastio
sem ceitil.


AMA: Ha ah ah ah ah ah!
Est'era bem graciosa,
quem se vê moça e fermosa
esperar pola irá má.
Hi se vai ele a pescar
meia légua polo mar,
isto bem o sabes tu,
quanto mais a Calecu:
quem há tanto d'esperar?
Melhor, Senhor, sê tu comigo.
À hora de minha morte,
qu'eu faça tão peca sorte.
Guarde-me Deus de tal p'rigo.
O certo é dar a prazer.
Pera que é envelhecer
esperando polo vento?
Quant'eu por mui necia sento
a que o contrário fizer.
[Gil Vicente/ XV-XVI]

---------------------
A minha desaventura
nam contente d'acabar-me,
por me dar maior tristura
me foi pôr em tant'altura,
para d'alto derribar-me;
que, se me matara alguém,
antes de ter tanto bem,
em tais chamas nam ardera,
pai, filhos nam conhecera,
nem me chorara ninguém.

[Garcia de Resende/XVI]


http://www.antimoon.com/forum/t2010-210.htm
Marinheiro   Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:15 pm GMT
We have been here in Brazil for 500 hundred years.
We brought our State, Language and Weapons.
We were not poor puritans or Ellis Island Crap.
We taught our language to indians, blacks, europeans immigrants and asiatic immigrants.
We like to beat the castillians here in South America.
We had a "campanha da nacionalização" when we enforced all italian, german, polish, japanese immigrants to speak our brazilian portuguese.
We are doomed to lead the galaico-portuguese world nowadays and our enemy is the castillian spanish everywhere.
We only regret that Galiza is a soft and non-confrontational society. We are a warrior people and we have conquered Brazil mainly beating the castillians from Tordesilhas Treaty.
We are the son who became almost twenty times bigger than the father.
Our forefathers made the Atlantic Trip and they were conquerors and sailors while the european portuguese forefathers were mainly peasants and rural bacward people. We are the active ones fighting indians, blacks, spaniards, freench, dutch, english.
We are already leading our language, that came from ours forefathers from Portugal to the stage of a world language.
It's our own language by genetics, by history e principalmente pela guerra
JGreco   Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:36 am GMT
That statement made above is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard. There is no beatingone language or another, there is celebratingthe great variation between the dialects of Castillian and Portuguese.Furthermore, there is NO STANDARD BRAZILIAN PORTUGUESE!!! Anyone can hear the difference if someone is speaking Sao Paulositano, Carioca, Santa Catariano, or Florianopolisitano. I come from a Luso-hispano family that would laugh at those comments that Marinheiro wrote above. Get a life!!
Viri Amaoro   Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:00 am GMT
Foi o espírito de um bandeirante que baixou no Marinheiro...
Naldo   Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:27 pm GMT
«We were not poor puritans or Ellis Island Crap. »

«Our forefathers made the Atlantic Trip and they were conquerors and sailors while the european portuguese forefathers were mainly peasants and rural bacward people. »

Interesting. While Northern America was developped by Ellis Island Crap,
the Portuguese crap ( peasants etc.) stayed at home and so the conquering of Brazil was undertaken by nobles and the like.
Does this explain today's difference in development ? (USA versus Brazil)
Marinheiro   Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:43 pm GMT
We are the brazilian elite, the ruling class, we are richer than United States' white trash. All those irish, german, poles in the US think they are something. They have sold their culture to adopt a gringo one. Poor immigrants who canceled their ancestral culture to adopt another inferior one. The mexicans are going to retake California and all the lands the US has stolen in 1848, it's pure demography and uti possidetis. Your president Bush is going to lead you into another historical defeat in Iraq. You should get a life for your GIs in Iraq because we are living a life full of emotions in our land and in our own culture. We are powerful because we don't depend on imported oil like the US, and the muslims and chinese are coming to give you a hug soon soon, if yours brownies don't do it in Aztlan before.

Good Luck mates !
Gringo   Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:08 pm GMT
««We have been here in Brazil for 500 hundred years.»»

This explains everything! 50 thousand years is quite a long time.

««We are a warrior people and we have conquered Brazil mainly beating the castillians from Tordesilhas Treaty.»»

You conquered Brazil from the Castillians, right? The Tordesilhas Treaty was a battle field? It explains everything.

««Our forefathers made the Atlantic Trip and they were conquerors and sailors while the european portuguese forefathers were mainly peasants and rural bacward people.»»

Good to know we do not have the same forefathers, what a relief!
Gringo   Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:13 pm GMT
Marinheiro Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:43 pm GMT
««We are the brazilian elite,»»

I do not think you are brazilian, at least you do not talk like one. Nooope, no way.