Galician and Portuguese

"I'm a journalist working on a story (for a UK newspaper) on Cascais as 'The New Rio.'"


Cascais population: 33 255
Rio de Janeiro population: 6 094 183


"Also, why did so many Brazilians pick Cascais...?"

A better question, why so many British choose Cascais?

Journalist :

Though I can't tell you much about Cascais, I can testify that brazillians are spread all over Portugal, and not only in cities. I hadn't realised that until I came to work in a small village in hinterland Portugal : even here, and in neighbouring localities as well, there's a discrete but well integrated brazillian comunity. They're everywhere in Portugal ! And they're welcome, as far I am concerned.

It was released recently a portuguese documentary about immigrants in Lisbon (brazillians, angolans, ukrainians etc.) that perhaps could interest you. It's called "Lisboetas", and the director (brazillian born, living in Portugal) is Sérgio Tréffaut.

''It seems that there are a few people here who either live in Cascais or know it well and I wondered if any of you could give me some pointers. I'm a journalist working on a story (for a UK newspaper) on Cascais as 'The New Rio.' ''

Yes, people from Cascais even use brazilian informal pronoun VOCÊ (=you) instead of portuguese pronoun TU (=thou). It is very trendy, so even close friends use VOCÊ and not TU when they communicate. And Portuguese people from Cascais use Brazilian words instead of Portuguese ones (garota, moça instead of rapariga, marrom instead of castanho and so on)

It's true some brazillianisms are used in Portugal. But the use of "Você" instead of "Tu" in Cascais has probably more to do with high class maneirisms than with brazillian influence. That's why you also might ear close friends calling each other by surnames. Don't forget we're talking about portuguese socio-economical elite's main nest.

Brazil is a melting pot, just like the USA, with 4 components, without any one of them being predominant. Brazil is not Portuguese, the USA are not British. MELTING POT. Haven't you heard of this expression?

Mas infelizmente, é o que eu vejo às vezes em alguns foruns, por parte de alguns membros, que querem forçar uma lusitanidade total e irrestrita a todos os brasileiros, coisa que sabemos não ser a realidade. Por mais que a cultura portuguesa tenha sido uma formadora essencial do Brasil.

««Yes, people from Cascais even use brazilian informal pronoun VOCÊ (=you) instead of portuguese pronoun TU (=thou). It is very trendy, so even close friends use VOCÊ and not TU when they communicate. And Portuguese people from Cascais use Brazilian words instead of Portuguese ones (garota, moça instead of rapariga, marrom instead of castanho and so on)»»

In Portugal the use of VOCÊ is formal. Close friends do not use VOCÊ.
The use of TU is informal.
Another way is not to use the pronoun, or use the name of the person instead.

Tu queres ir jantar?(informal)
Você quer ir jantar?(formal)
Quer ir jantar? (formal)
Queres ir jantar?(informal)
A Ana quer ir jantar?(formal)


««garota, moça instead of rapariga,»»

Garota, Moça and Rapariga are all used in Portugal. Some regions use more one word than the other. Garota is a very young girl. Moça is an older girl, unless you say mocinha.

You also have: Gaiata, miúda, menina.


««marrom instead of castanho »»


Marron is a French word, so it is not used in Portugal, you only hear castanho.

Cascais belongs to the district of Lisbon the people speak the same way they do in Lisbon. It is only 30 kilometres from Lisbon.

But you can easily find Brazilians playing Capoeira at the sound of birimbau on the beach.

Kuringa

««Brazil is not Portuguese,»»

Get over it. No one says Brazil is Portuguese for almost 200 years.



Vai ser dífícil é convencer a torcida Brasileira, esses agora são Portugueses desde criancinha, só uns 180 milhões ;)

http://globoesporte.globo.com/ESP/Noticia/0,,AA1228190-5212,00.html

"Brazil is not Portuguese, the USA are not British."

Who said Brazil is portuguese? You will obtain an award if you tell us, who in this forum has made such a stupid claim.

"Brazil is a melting pot, just like the USA, with 4 components, without any one of them being predominant."

You should have compared the melting pot phenomenon in Brazil to that of other latinamerican nations, since the same applies for them. Be a little more humble and stop comparing Brazil with the USA. BRAZIL AND THE USA ARE TWO DIFFERENT PAIR OF SHOES.

" Vai ser dífícil é convencer a torcida Brasileira, esses agora são Portugueses desde criancinha, só uns 180 milhões ;) "

Gringo you are the first to complain about those who write off-topic. So please stay on topic.

Thanks for the replies to my question. Rui's experiences in rural Portugal are very interesting and Leyla's comments on Brazilian words seeping into Cascais conversations are just the sort of thing I was looking for, for my article.

O Briga Do - it doesn't much help when you just replace one of my questions with one of your though!

...and can somebody please confirm that Gringo knows what he's talking about...? I don't speak Portuguese but it doesn't seem to me that just because Marron is a French word - that I DO speak - means that is cannot be used in Portugal. Plenty of Portuguese in France to have 'imported' it. Also 30km is more than enough to have slight accent or mannerism changes.

Anymore Brazilian habits seeping into Cascais - The 'New Rio'? (ok - the 'New but much much smaller Rio' - thanks again O Briga Do)

As a portuguese living in Lisbon, I have heard many times people saying marron instead of castanho. Even at clothing stores.

Okay, another (potentially stupid) question: the fresh fruit juices that you get in Spanish-speaking Latin America are often known as 'Super-vitaminas.' What are they called in Brazil? And has the name also spread to Portugal?

Also (and even worse as far as these questions go) can anyone recommend a GREAT Brazilian restaurant, cafe or bar in Cascais? (Apologies for being so lame!)

Thanks

««...and can somebody please confirm that Gringo knows what he's talking about...? I don't speak Portuguese but it doesn't seem to me that just because Marron is a French word - that I DO speak - means that is cannot be used in Portugal. Plenty of Portuguese in France to have 'imported' it. Also 30km is more than enough to have slight accent or mannerism changes.»»


How can you ask someone to confirm that I know what I am talking about? Why don't you also ask to confirm if others know what they say?


By the way how come a journalist does not know what reliable sources mean?



It is not because it is a French word that it is not spoken, there are many French words that entered in the Portuguese language in the past, it is because MARRON never entered in the Portuguese European vocabulary, it is French. Portuguese in France are in France not Cascais.


30 km IS NOT ENOUGH to have slight accent or mannerism changes. You do not seem to have understood, CASCAIS belongs to LISBON district, it is a commuter's area not an isolated one. You would have seen it if you had been there.


Cascais is A TIPICAL PORTUGUESE Village and a tourist area that is ALWAYS full of tourists.

««working on a story (for a UK newspaper) on Cascais as 'The New Rio.' A strange idea I know,»»

Anyone will think of it as a very strange idea, good thing you noticed that on your own.




Tico, if you are a Portuguese living in Lisbon, you can not distinguish a Brazilian from a Portuguese. The only conclusion is that you are not Portuguese.

««the fresh fruit juices that you get in Spanish-speaking Latin America are often known as 'Super-vitaminas.' What are they called in Brazil? And has the name also spread to Portugal? »»


Why would the name spread to Portugal? The name in Portugal is "sumo de frutas". Super vitamins is what you get when you want a vitamin supplement.

'The New Rio.'

What happened to the old one called RIO TEJO (Tagus river)?

It's because I understand the meaning of 'reliable sources' that I wanted to check credibility...sorry, Gringo, but in your case I'm STILL not convinced.

As you so rightly pointed out Portuguese in France are in France...UNTIL they come home. The thousands of Portuguese immigrants in France must have imported many words into common use. (Besides, ever noticed that 'marron' is also Spanish?).

Naturally I would not have been commissioned to write this article if I had never been in Cascais, Gringo. I was there about 3 weeks ago and am just digging supplementary background material here...and (with the obvious exception) I have found this forum to be very useful.

I was commissioned to do this article by the editorial board of a leading UK newspaper. It seemed that there was the basis of a good and original story. However, your learned and intelligent responses, Gringo, have lead me to the inescapable conclusion that we must abandon the project forthwith since you personally consider it ridiculous. [This is an example of what is called 'irony' in case you don't recognise it.]

Thanks for the input Tico - sounds reasonable.

...and is there STILL nobody willing to suggest that Gringo might know what he's talking about?