Galician and Portuguese

Guest   Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:01 pm GMT
To all people who say Portuguese and Spanish can't communicate, i think they are all wrong, working at a big supermarket, i occasionally talk with people from many nationalities, and today spoke with 2 spanish guys, i spoke in Porutuguese and they spoke in Spanish, all of us were able to understand with each other cuz we made an effort to understand each other.
JGreco   Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:40 pm GMT
But as guest does state above the misconceptions of complete inteliigability between Portuguese and Spanish are completely false. At basic and even advanced levels the two languages are mutually inteliigable similar to the levels of intelligability experienced in some of the Nordic languages.
Marinheiro   Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:31 pm GMT
Nós, os donos do poder, sempre defendemos a nossa língua, o português do Brasil.
A língua do Brasil é o português brasileiro. Esta é a nossa língua histórica. Todas as Constituições do Brasil sempre valorizaram e privilegiaram a denominação de língua portuguesa como mais um elo da unidade nacional. Da mesma maneira que não existe uma língua amazonense, paraense, maranhense, paranaense, catarinense e nem gaúcha. Existe o Português do Brasil. Sim existem as línguas portuguesas, da qual a língua portuguesa do Brasil é a maior em número e em potencial. Descendentes de índios, africanos, italianos, alemães voltem para o canavial e lembrem-se da Campanha de Nacionalização e da Segunda Guerra, quando a língua portuguesa do Brasil mais uma vez mostrou a sua total hegemonia no Brasil ! Castelhanos, preparem-se que vamos mais uma vez invadir a sua parte, como sempre fizemos !

Português do Brasil - Só no Brasil rumo aos 200.000.000 - Principal Língua da América do Sul
Gringo   Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:21 pm GMT
Marinheiro
««Castelhanos, preparem-se que vamos mais uma vez invadir a sua parte, como sempre fizemos !»»

Are you going to invade Spain? When was the last time you invaded the Castilian side? You know the "Castilian side" is in Europe don't you?

««Descendentes de índios, africanos, italianos, alemães voltem para o canavial »»

That makes quite a lot of Brazilians!


You keep not making any sense.
Viri Amaoro   Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:11 pm GMT
O Brasil vai invadir a Argentina e obrigar o Maradona a falar português. A primeira frase vai ser: "Pelé foi o maior jogador de futebol de todos os tempos"!
Kelly   Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:27 pm GMT
- an inflected infinitive (unique?).


Inflected infinitive is becoming obsolete in Brazilian Portuguese.
We normally use simple infinitive instead:


Está na hora de eu ir embora. = It's time for me go away.
Está na hora de você ir embora. = It's time for you go away.
Está na hora dele ir embora. = It's time for him go way.

Está na hora da gente ir embora. = It's time for us go away.
Está na hora de vocês irEM embora. = It's time for you (all) go away.
Está na hora deles irEM embora. = It's time for them go away.


As we can see, inflected infinitive is used only with 3rd person, but in colloquial speech, simple infinitive is also possible:

''Tá na hora de vocês ir embora''
''Tá na hora deles ir embora''
Kelly   Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:29 pm GMT
- an inflected infinitive (unique?).


Inflected infinitive is becoming obsolete in Brazilian Portuguese.
We normally use simple infinitive instead:


Está na hora de eu ir embora. = It's time for me to go away.
Está na hora de você ir embora. = It's time for you to go away.
Está na hora dele ir embora. = It's time for him to go way.

Está na hora da gente ir embora. = It's time for us to go away.
Está na hora de vocês irEM embora. = It's time for you (all) to go away.
Está na hora deles irEM embora. = It's time for them to go away.


As we can see, inflected infinitive is used only with 3rd person, but in colloquial speech, simple infinitive is also possible:

''Tá na hora de vocês ir embora''
''Tá na hora deles ir embora''
.   Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:53 pm GMT
««Inflected infinitive is becoming obsolete in Brazilian Portuguese.»»

So what you mean is that it is not yet obsolete and it is still used at the educated level.
Kelly   Mon May 01, 2006 1:06 am GMT
««Inflected infinitive is becoming obsolete in Brazilian Portuguese.»»

So what you mean is that it is not yet obsolete and it is still used at the educated level.

Nope, not even educated speakers would say:

-Isso é para tu fazeres.- (inflected infinitive) but
-Isso é para você fazer. (normal infinitive)

fazeres and fazerdes are obsolete in Brazilian Portuguese
(arcaic, I would say)

and fazermos is formal (normally a gente fazer is used orally)

so, fazerem is the only form of inflected infinitive still used by educated speakers

1/6 survival rate
Guest   Mon May 01, 2006 5:06 am GMT
"Está na hora de eu ir embora. = It's time for me to go away.
Está na hora de você ir embora. = It's time for you to go away.
Está na hora dele ir embora. = It's time for him to go way.

Está na hora da gente ir embora. = It's time for us to go away.
Está na hora de vocês irEM embora. = It's time for you (all) to go away.
Está na hora deles irEM embora. = It's time for them to go away. "
We also do use this in European Portuguese,maybe not written but when spoken,perhaps cuz of the exposure to the Brazilian variety,we have been brought up. Some years ago, "ola como estas?(Hi how are u?)was used by virtually everyone in Portugal, now its becoming almost obsolete by Portuguese who adopted " oi tudo bem?"
Gringo   Mon May 01, 2006 11:16 am GMT
««Some years ago, "ola como estas?(Hi how are u?)was used by virtually everyone in Portugal, now its becoming almost obsolete by Portuguese who adopted " oi tudo bem?" »»

No, it is not becoming obsolete. "Olá como estás?" is used by most people. "Oi, tudo bem?" is hardly ever heard and mostly said by Brazilians.
"Então tás fixe? Tudo bem?" is what you will hear most of the time.


««"Está na hora de eu ir embora. = It's time for me to go away.
Está na hora de você ir embora. = It's time for you to go away.
Está na hora dele ir embora. = It's time for him to go way.

Está na hora da gente ir embora. = It's time for us to go away.
Está na hora de vocês irEM embora. = It's time for you (all) to go away.
Está na hora deles irEM embora. = It's time for them to go away. "
We also do use this in European Portuguese,maybe not written but when spoken,perhaps cuz of the exposure to the Brazilian variety,we have been brought up.»»

Sorry guest, but it has nothing to do with exposure. We do not say "Está na hora de vocês ir embora." I could not understand where is the Brazilian exposure in the cases you wrote, you were just conjugating verbs.
Guest   Mon May 01, 2006 2:14 pm GMT
No, it is not becoming obsolete. "Olá como estás?" is used by most people. "Oi, tudo bem?" is hardly ever heard and mostly said by Brazilians.
"Então tás fixe? Tudo bem?" is what you will hear most of the time.
~Maybe among young people, i definitely never heard anyone who is not young use the term fixe, but tudo bem
Kristie   Mon May 01, 2006 2:17 pm GMT
We do not say "Está na hora de vocês ir embora." I could not understand where is the Brazilian exposure in the cases you wrote, you were just conjugating verbs.
Sorry Gringo, but i for myself have heard tons of time people saying Esta na hora da gente ir embora.
Gringo   Mon May 01, 2006 3:37 pm GMT
Guest:
~Maybe among young people, i definitely never heard anyone who is not young use the term fixe, but tudo bem

"Fixe" was already used in the 70's, but it is colloquialism or "light slang". People stop using it as they grow old but "ainda tem bué da cotas que falam":P

Kristie:
"Sorry Gringo, but i for myself have heard tons of time people saying Esta na hora da gente ir embora"

Yes you will hear and it is correct. You will also hear "Esta na hora da gente ir-se embora". "A gente irem embora" would be very wrong.

What you will not hear is: "Está na hora de VOÇÊS IR embora";
you will hear: "Está na hora de vocês irEM embora" or "Está na hora de vocês irem-se embora."

But as you can see mistakes are made on both sides of the sea:
http://ciberduvidas.sapo.pt/php/resposta.php?id=41&palavras=+a+gente
Viri Amaoro   Mon May 01, 2006 10:11 pm GMT
As far as I am concerned, "bué" and "cotas" is definitely Lisbon-speak and I've never used it or knew of anyone using it roughly north of the Mondego (where I live). The same goes for "muita" (muitA fixe, muitA bom etc). In the rest of the country we use "muito", not that.
I do use fixe and always used that as long as I remember. Also "fogo!", "tá demais" and "espectacular", "tá um espectáculo" etc, which more and more seems to be dated and used by those born before 1980 (maybe I'm just getting old).
Also note the widespread use of the contraction "tá tudo?...", from "está tudo bem?". "Gente" (a gente isto, a gente aquilo) also took root, from Brazil, and is now absolutely common.