Ladino

Guest   Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:06 pm GMT
Raetica Romanica lingua Latino genere ortus sermo est: Grisonum pagi Romanica lingua, Dolomiana Latina lingua et Foroiuliensis lingua comprehenduntur. Dolomianam Latinam linguam tricesiens milia (30 000) hominum in Dolomianorum montium vallibus (in Venetia et Altae Athesiae ac Tridenti regionibus) loquuntur. Haec regio etiam Ladinia nominari potest.

Dolomiana Latina lingua vulgo Ladin confundi non debet lingua Hispaniae Iudaeorum vulgo Ladino.
Guest   Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:07 pm GMT
Raetica Romanica lingua Latino genere ortus sermo est: Grisonum pagi Romanica lingua, Dolomiana Latina lingua et Foroiuliensis lingua comprehenduntur. Dolomianam Latinam linguam tricesiens milia (30 000) hominum in Dolomianorum montium vallibus (in Venetia et Altae Athesiae ac Tridenti regionibus) loquuntur. Haec regio etiam Ladinia nominari potest.

Dolomiana Latina lingua vulgo Ladin confundi non debet lingua Hispaniae Iudaeorum vulgo Ladino.
K. T.   Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:18 pm GMT
That sounds a lot like Spanish to me, and it's VERY understandable. There were two words I wasn't sure if I understood correctly. It makes me wonder what makes a language a language to linguists. I'm a polyglot, not a linguist, so I don't understand the finer points on that topic.

A while back someone posted something in Catalan and something in Occitan. I have never studied either language, but I was able to understand both fairly well. I don't mean to be funny, but I was almost wondering in the case of Occitan and Ladino here HOW these are distinct languages?

I can "see" how Catalan is kind of its own language, although I can't quite explain how I know.

Any comments from linguists?

Thanks for sharing the files.
K. T.   Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:32 pm GMT
"Except for some occasional words, the two forms of Spanish are probably mutually intelligable. Over thirty years ago, I showed an article in "Quinto Lingo" about Ladino to a Mexican friend of mine, Salvador Guerrero. He told me that it looked like Spanish to him and implied that he didn't understand why the magazine was trying to present it as something special. Many years later I tried speaking some Romanian to a Mexican co-worker of mine, Hugo, just for the heck of it and I was surprised at how much of it he recognized. Afterall, Romanian is probably the most divergent member of the Romance family. He only said that it sounded more like Italian than Spanish"-Brennus

I used to have some old Quinto Lingo magazines. Someone must of introduced me to the magazine, but they were not producing them any more when I tried to contact the publishers in the 1990s.

I have the same kind of feeling about Romance languages as your Mexican co-worker had about Ladino: What's the big deal? Learn a couple and you can pick up the others at a big discount. I don't even feel like it's another language.

I haven't tried Romanian though. On the surface it doesn't look as similar to me.

I guess this is why I'm not a "linguist". I haven't learned what makes language distinct for a linguist.
Guest   Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:12 pm GMT
Yiddish is more important than Ladino. It was the native or lingua franca of all Jews in all Eastern Europe while Ladino is not.
Gabriel   Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:59 pm GMT
I'm a native speaker of Spanish and I can understand most of what's said in those recordings. To me, it sounds a bit like Spanish spoken with a foreign accent.
Guest   Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:24 pm GMT
Uh, Ladino is mostly formed from Old Spanish infused with words from a few other places. It shouldn't be shocking for a Spanish speaker to realize that he can understand Ladino.
JM   Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:38 pm GMT
<<You can listen to it here: http://www.sephardicstudies.org/quickladino.html
Maybe some spanish speakers can say how can say how close it is to spanish >>
I quite agree with Sigma. I'm spanish and i can tell you i can understand every word that the lady has pronounced. So if that is ladino it is really close to spanish.
Además sé que hay muy bonitas romanzas cantadas en ladino.
Not a linguist (aka K. T.   Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:39 pm GMT
Yes, but does it qualify as a "language"?
furrykef   Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:10 pm GMT
"A language is a dialect with an army and navy." -- attributed to Max Weinreich

In other words, the distinction between a dialect and a language is often debated and not really all that important. It's a matter of politics more than anything.
K. T.   Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:30 pm GMT
That's something that I've never been able to define. I certainly see your point with something like Bosnian/Serbo-Croatian.

Perhaps Ladino is more of a dialect.
furrykef   Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:30 am GMT
Culturally it's very distinct from modern Spanish, so I'm more inclined to call it a language... but then, that's just me.
Aldo   Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:12 pm GMT
The recordings are way interesting. I'd say that Ladino is much clearer than the way some Cubans or Puerto Ricans speak Spanish. No kidding!
K. T.   Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:36 am GMT
Someone wanted info on Ladino in another thread. That thread has spam from back in June, so I brought this one back to life.

The question was "Which language is closest to Spanish?"

I think Ladino IS a kind of Spanish, but I know better NOW than to get into that dialect vs language debate here.