Keep cool, Adolfo, your right and French nationalist OiL is wrong, thats for sure! The proof: France is one of the last states that have not ratified the European Charta of Regional or Minority Languages. It is unthinkable in France to run a Basque or German school.
French in Canada
I don't care about what they do in France with languages, it's their country and not mine, but I don't accept lies about Spain to hide the anihilation of minority languages that they made.In France they even have a generic term to call all languages that are not French: "Patois". I can hardly think about a worse way to belittle minority languages with just one word. And then you find here those like the one who wrotte above who find insulting that on Antimoon they separated "English" from other languages, simply because French is among "languages".
"Do they teach Catalan , Basque, Corsican or Breton in PUBLIC French Schools and High Schools? Please answer Yes or Not."
— In most cases NO, because of overwhelming disinterest. In Alsace, attempts to introduce more German in kindergarten were strongly opposed by parents.
In French Catalonia some clubs and private schools teach Catalan but they have very, very little following. Catalan suffers a bad image in Perpignan: the only ones who use it are the Gipsy community and a few red veterans, old communist crackpots who fled Barcelona at the end of Spanish civil war and took refuge in France.
On the other hand Catalan is very assertive in Spanish Catalonia because (despite the fucking 'Esquerra') it's widely spoken by middle and even upper classes, and because Spanish is inherently weak in front of other languages (and furthermore, in that instance, associated with immigrants from Andalusia).
"In France they even have a generic term to call all languages that are not French: "Patois". I can hardly think about a worse way to belittle minority languages with just one word."
— You can't be more wrong. "Patois" is the word affectionately used by native speakers themselves. In Paris they are called "langues régionales".
— In most cases NO, because of overwhelming disinterest. In Alsace, attempts to introduce more German in kindergarten were strongly opposed by parents.
In French Catalonia some clubs and private schools teach Catalan but they have very, very little following. Catalan suffers a bad image in Perpignan: the only ones who use it are the Gipsy community and a few red veterans, old communist crackpots who fled Barcelona at the end of Spanish civil war and took refuge in France.
On the other hand Catalan is very assertive in Spanish Catalonia because (despite the fucking 'Esquerra') it's widely spoken by middle and even upper classes, and because Spanish is inherently weak in front of other languages (and furthermore, in that instance, associated with immigrants from Andalusia).
"In France they even have a generic term to call all languages that are not French: "Patois". I can hardly think about a worse way to belittle minority languages with just one word."
— You can't be more wrong. "Patois" is the word affectionately used by native speakers themselves. In Paris they are called "langues régionales".
Why was the French in Eastern Europe thread closed? Absolutely ridiculous!
"In most cases NO, because of overwhelming disinterest. In Alsace, attempts to introduce more German in kindergarten were strongly opposed by parents."
Maybe they should have tried "Alsatian", not standard German. Many Alsatians still don't like Germans (imo) even though they ARE Germanic and they get business from German tourists. I think it's because they were forced to fight for Germany in WWII.
Maybe they should have tried "Alsatian", not standard German. Many Alsatians still don't like Germans (imo) even though they ARE Germanic and they get business from German tourists. I think it's because they were forced to fight for Germany in WWII.
Adolfo,
Please type in the address below for a discussion of patois and regional languages. It is in French and there is also a translation in English.
Students of French: you can listen in French if you like. The speaker has a charming way of speaking.
http://french.about.com/library/listening/bllg-regions4-translation.htm
Please type in the address below for a discussion of patois and regional languages. It is in French and there is also a translation in English.
Students of French: you can listen in French if you like. The speaker has a charming way of speaking.
http://french.about.com/library/listening/bllg-regions4-translation.htm
<< ... Spanish is inherently weak in front of other languages ... >>
I'm not so sure about that -- Spanish seems to be pretty strong in the USA these days, compared to English.
I'm not so sure about that -- Spanish seems to be pretty strong in the USA these days, compared to English.
at least, French is marginalized in Belgium, 80 % of trade and commerce is done in Flanders.
<< Has there ever been in France someone like Lord Durham, Governor General of British North America, whose explicite goal was to "encourage the extinction of the French language and culture through intermingling with the more numerous English"?
* Did ethnical cleansing of minorities take place in France like it did in Italy until the early 50's? (Vallée d'Aoste, Sud-Tyrol)
* In Louisiana, all parish schools that taught in French were forbidden by law during WW-1: did anything similar ever happen in France?
* In Spain, during Franco's dictature, the Basque and Catalan languages were harshly repressed — not in France. Now they are more alive than ever in Spain — not in France... Because local speakers aren't much interested.
* It's sad that Breton and Occitan are slowly declining. This process started long ago. Even before those regions came under French rule, local parliaments and courts switched to French. And after all, Breton is still more widely spoken than Gaelic in Ireland.
* Franco-Provençal dialects were eradicated from Western Switzerland — by the Swiss themselves! They just dropped the dialect, without any incentive to do so from any government whatsoever.
* and so on. >>
That's right. All those spekers of regional languages in France gave up their speech in favor of French VOLUNTARILY.
Galeic is spoken by more or less 100,000 in and most of them in Western ireland. Gaelic declined when hordes of Gaelic speaking Irish immigrated to US and UK during the "Potato Famine" that took place in the 19th century only to be replaced by British settlers who eventually greatly outnumbered the Gaelic speakers in Ireland. Many say that this is an act of "genocide".
On the other hand, in the middle of 20th there were slightly more than 1 million Breton speakers. By 1970's there were only less than 500,000. But the case is different, most Breton speakers spoke in French only to their children because they wanted them to grow up speaking just French on a voluntary basis. Very few non-Breton speaking French settled in Brittany even up to now. So, there's no reason to blame France since Breton and other regional language speakers switched to French without geting pressured or forced to.
* Did ethnical cleansing of minorities take place in France like it did in Italy until the early 50's? (Vallée d'Aoste, Sud-Tyrol)
* In Louisiana, all parish schools that taught in French were forbidden by law during WW-1: did anything similar ever happen in France?
* In Spain, during Franco's dictature, the Basque and Catalan languages were harshly repressed — not in France. Now they are more alive than ever in Spain — not in France... Because local speakers aren't much interested.
* It's sad that Breton and Occitan are slowly declining. This process started long ago. Even before those regions came under French rule, local parliaments and courts switched to French. And after all, Breton is still more widely spoken than Gaelic in Ireland.
* Franco-Provençal dialects were eradicated from Western Switzerland — by the Swiss themselves! They just dropped the dialect, without any incentive to do so from any government whatsoever.
* and so on. >>
That's right. All those spekers of regional languages in France gave up their speech in favor of French VOLUNTARILY.
Galeic is spoken by more or less 100,000 in and most of them in Western ireland. Gaelic declined when hordes of Gaelic speaking Irish immigrated to US and UK during the "Potato Famine" that took place in the 19th century only to be replaced by British settlers who eventually greatly outnumbered the Gaelic speakers in Ireland. Many say that this is an act of "genocide".
On the other hand, in the middle of 20th there were slightly more than 1 million Breton speakers. By 1970's there were only less than 500,000. But the case is different, most Breton speakers spoke in French only to their children because they wanted them to grow up speaking just French on a voluntary basis. Very few non-Breton speaking French settled in Brittany even up to now. So, there's no reason to blame France since Breton and other regional language speakers switched to French without geting pressured or forced to.
"In most cases NO, because of overwhelming disinterest. In Alsace, attempts to introduce more German in kindergarten were strongly opposed by parents. "
This is true to some extent. But how come there is this situation? Because after centuries of repression , all regional languages in France are almost extinct. No public school in France taught other language appart from French at least since the French Revolution, and that is pure fact. Considering France had a considerably better public school system than most of Western European countries, French is now widespread, but it once was a language spoken in a small part of France only. Since the dirty work is done, the French Government can claim that almost nobody in France want their children learn Breton , Occitan or Provençal. These languages are allien to the people who live in the regions where they once were very prestigious like Provençal. But some of them are still quite alive. For example in French Navarre, Basque is the mother tongue of most of the people there and their children can not learn Basque at pubic Schools. I highly doubt that they are not interested on learning their mother tongue . There is not even Basque as an optional language in Public French Schools . What do you think, that people leave their language so easily just because French is supposedly much more useful? Nowadays there are less reasons to learn French instead of regional languages in France than ever, since French is declining.
This is true to some extent. But how come there is this situation? Because after centuries of repression , all regional languages in France are almost extinct. No public school in France taught other language appart from French at least since the French Revolution, and that is pure fact. Considering France had a considerably better public school system than most of Western European countries, French is now widespread, but it once was a language spoken in a small part of France only. Since the dirty work is done, the French Government can claim that almost nobody in France want their children learn Breton , Occitan or Provençal. These languages are allien to the people who live in the regions where they once were very prestigious like Provençal. But some of them are still quite alive. For example in French Navarre, Basque is the mother tongue of most of the people there and their children can not learn Basque at pubic Schools. I highly doubt that they are not interested on learning their mother tongue . There is not even Basque as an optional language in Public French Schools . What do you think, that people leave their language so easily just because French is supposedly much more useful? Nowadays there are less reasons to learn French instead of regional languages in France than ever, since French is declining.
Correction: There's no reason to learn Spanish because aside from the fact that it's speakers contributed no ideas in world society, it's rapidly disintigrating into numerous variants.
Hear the how Latin Americans and Southern Spaniards even the educated ones and chances are you'd get bewildered because of lots of peculiarites.
Hear the how Latin Americans and Southern Spaniards even the educated ones and chances are you'd get bewildered because of lots of peculiarites.
Your envy towards the French language shows up again just because Catalan, Basque, Galician, Asturians, Aragonese, Leonese, and the Aranese fiercely resist Castellano.
These languages are now official in Spain and not only taught but they are the medium of instructions in the areas where they are spoken.
These languages are now official in Spain and not only taught but they are the medium of instructions in the areas where they are spoken.
In France and other Francophone countries, patois has been used to describe non-Parisian French and so-called regional languages such as Breton, Occitan, and Franco-Provençal, since 1643.The word assumes the view of such languages as being backward, countrified, and unlettered, thus is considered by speakers of those languages as offensive
Patois is a derogatory term despite some liars deny this. For example, this is what the French wikipedia itself says about it:
"en 1762 le dictionnaire de l'Académie française le définit ainsi ; « Langage rustique, grossier, comme est celui d'un paysan, ou du bas peuple ». Cette présentation est depuis plusieurs décennies dénoncée par la plupart des linguistes et des romanistes. Plusieurs observateurs et chercheurs estiment en effet que la désignation d'un parler en tant que "patois" relève d'une forme de discrimination"
"en 1762 le dictionnaire de l'Académie française le définit ainsi ; « Langage rustique, grossier, comme est celui d'un paysan, ou du bas peuple ». Cette présentation est depuis plusieurs décennies dénoncée par la plupart des linguistes et des romanistes. Plusieurs observateurs et chercheurs estiment en effet que la désignation d'un parler en tant que "patois" relève d'une forme de discrimination"