Anyone familiar with other indo-euro languages knows that the pronunciation of /r/ in words is markedly differently from its counterpart of other indo-euro tongues. WHy? Anyone has any clue?
Why does the english /r/ differ from other Indo-euro /r/?
I feel that /r/ is easier to pronounce in English than in Spanish, Italy, French or Germen, which involves a lot more effort for its realization.
Yep, we're all lazy and on the dole. We rarely study foonetix or speak propuh. We're linguistically challenged so entitled to government handouts. We vote for repz to support our indifference! Vive la difference!
>>I imagine that in both Old and Middle English the r was somewhat trilled. In non-Rhotic forms of Modern English it has disappeared altogether in some cases. <<
Oh weally? I've nevah wead o' imagined such a thing. Got any wefewences on those non-whotic fawms?
Oh weally? I've nevah wead o' imagined such a thing. Got any wefewences on those non-whotic fawms?
It might come from the older form, written as 'wr' that merged with /r/ in middle English. This is known as the rap-wrap merger. I suspect that the unique English /r/ developed from Old English /wr/ [r_w] into modern English [r\]. Note that Scottish English often preserves the old [r] or [4] quality of /r/.
<<Note that Scottish English often preserves the old [r] or [4] quality of /r/>>
Oh, I thought this was because of the Scottish Gaelic influence... Was I wrong?
Oh, I thought this was because of the Scottish Gaelic influence... Was I wrong?
<<Oh, I thought this was because of the Scottish Gaelic influence... Was I wrong?>>
That's possible too; I'm certainly not an expert in Scottish English. However, the Lowland Scots were never primarily Gaelic-speaking (though it was a prestige language at one point), so it probably wouldn't come from Gaelic. It is quite possible though that these forms were reintroduced from Scots, rather than directly preserved from Old English.
That's possible too; I'm certainly not an expert in Scottish English. However, the Lowland Scots were never primarily Gaelic-speaking (though it was a prestige language at one point), so it probably wouldn't come from Gaelic. It is quite possible though that these forms were reintroduced from Scots, rather than directly preserved from Old English.
<<I feel that /r/ is easier to pronounce in English than in Spanish, Italy, French or Germen, which involves a lot more effort for its realization. >>
That's interesting, because I quite effortlessly produce a Spanish /r/ ([r] and [4]). When I was learning English, however, [r\] was problematic, it seemed indistinct to me and hard to get for a while. It was as if the tongue was actually nowhere rather than being firmly and comfortably against an articulator.
A few weeks ago, I was working on Canepari's neutral international accent and the main trouble I had was with his semi-approximant [r\], something like [r\_o].
That's interesting, because I quite effortlessly produce a Spanish /r/ ([r] and [4]). When I was learning English, however, [r\] was problematic, it seemed indistinct to me and hard to get for a while. It was as if the tongue was actually nowhere rather than being firmly and comfortably against an articulator.
A few weeks ago, I was working on Canepari's neutral international accent and the main trouble I had was with his semi-approximant [r\], something like [r\_o].
The Middle English /r/ was probably more like a spirant/fricative... So to us it may sound like an uvular /r/ or maybe (less likely) an /l/. Other languages have it though, like Tamil and Mandarin...
Old English's /r/ was rolled.
Old English's /r/ was rolled.
I find [r\] easier to pronounce than any other r-like sounds as found in other languages ... and this is hardly surprising at all: I'm a native English speaker. Native speakers of other languages (Japanese is a good example), on the other hand, may have great difficulty with our /r/.
Well the English r has never been a problem for me--nor any other r-like sounds in other languages for that matter. The two th sounds, however... Not to mention those freaking vowels. :-(
<<What about the pronunciation of /r/ as [P/]?>>
This is common in London English, and spreading throughout England. It also occurs sporadically in other areas, like in North America. I often have [P\] for /r/ in syllable-initials, especially in clusters, so 'train' is usually [t_SP\en] for me. Syllable final /r/ is rarely [P\] for me though. I more often have [r\_G]
This is common in London English, and spreading throughout England. It also occurs sporadically in other areas, like in North America. I often have [P\] for /r/ in syllable-initials, especially in clusters, so 'train' is usually [t_SP\en] for me. Syllable final /r/ is rarely [P\] for me though. I more often have [r\_G]
<<A few weeks ago, I was working on Canepari's neutral international accent and the main trouble I had was with his semi-approximant [r\], something like [r\_o].>>
I'm quite interested in Canepari's proposal, but I'm confused about his semi-approximant /r/. Do you by any chance have a recording of this sound that I could hear?
I'm quite interested in Canepari's proposal, but I'm confused about his semi-approximant /r/. Do you by any chance have a recording of this sound that I could hear?
Many Brazilian dialects have retroflex pronunciation of [r], one of them is Caipira dialect used in São Paulo state inland.