Spellings of 'serious-Sirius' and 'Tory-torrent'

Josh Lalonde   Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:45 pm GMT
Is there a (semi-)consistent spelling difference between these sets? As far as I can tell, my /ir/ corresponds to RP /Ir/ when: a. It is spelled 'irr' before a vowel (mirror), except when derived from a word ending in 'ir' (stirring). b. It comes from a word with 'ir' followed by a vowel in Latin (spirit) or c. It is spelled 'yr' (lyric).
For Tory-torrent, I'm a little less sure. Everything with 'orr' seems to be /Qr/ (like 'sorry'), but not every thing with 'or' followed by a vowel is /Or/ (forest). Words with '-ory' (when stressed on the second-to-last syllable) seem to all be /Or/, but are there any rules to explain why 'forest' and 'orange' have /Qr/?
Lazar   Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:59 pm GMT
Yeah, I think your "serious-Sirius" spelling rules are pretty good.

As for "Tory-torrent", maybe it's that French- (and Latin-) derived words with "or"+vowel use /Qr/? But then again, there is "story", with /O/, and even the variation in RP between "historian" with /O/ and "historic" with /Q/. And then there's the Greek-derived word "chorus", where RP uses /O/.
Tavorian   Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:39 pm GMT
I have:

"serious" [sI_rr\jUs]
"Sirius" [sI_rr\jUs]

"torrent" [tor\nt]
"tory" [tor\i]

What did one star say to the other?

Are you Sirius?
Lazar   Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:56 pm GMT
On a related note: When I was in elementary school, I had to read a book in which a girl was named Erin. She was talking to a boy, and he said that he thought Erin was a man's name, like "Erin in the Bible". I thought that was weird when I read it, because I hadn't heard of anyone in the Bible named Erin. It was only about a couple years ago, once I had learned more about American English dialects, that I realized that the boy in the book was confusing Erin with Aaron. In my dialect I have:

Erin ["Er\In]
Aaron ["{r\@n]
Tavorian   Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:07 pm GMT
Just curious, how is your name pronounced? Is it [l{zr\=]?
Lazar   Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:20 pm GMT
Haha, that question has come up in the past. Many people's intuitive guess is that it's /l@"zAr/, and some people I've known have thought it was /"lezr=/, but I think your suggestion /"l{zr=/ is a first. ;-)

It's actually pronounced /"lezAr/, rhyming with "quasar". The name (in written form) is essentially the Romanian and Slavic version of "Lazarus", with my family's pronunciation maybe influenced by the Yiddish version "Leizer". Long story.
Guy   Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:31 am GMT
I have a complete serious-Sirius merger and tory-torrent merger.
It wasn't until I learned about phonetics and phonology that I learned some people make a distinction between these pairs of words.

Lazar,
I thought it was /"leIz@`/, rhyming with razor ;-)