Thanks, Damian.
And I thinking I might have been rude all this years... lol
And I thinking I might have been rude all this years... lol
"you people"
How about this: "If you have any questions..."
What is wrong with rhis.
What is wrong with rhis.
>>I always say "you guys", even if the group is entirely female.<<
I do too - "you guys" seems to be used purely as a second person plural pronoun in informal speec here. Note, though, that "guys" alone seems to have been similarly generalized, as one can say things like "these guys" and "those guys" when referring to groups consisting only of women.
I do too - "you guys" seems to be used purely as a second person plural pronoun in informal speec here. Note, though, that "guys" alone seems to have been similarly generalized, as one can say things like "these guys" and "those guys" when referring to groups consisting only of women.
<<I was introducing an event one night when I addressed the audience saying, "you people">>
To these ears, addressing a crowd as 'you people' does sound a tad odd, but not in any way rude. But I suppose it depends largely on where you are from.
I work part-time for an American firm in the city (London) and my guv'nor is a no nonsense Canadian. If a work colleague has, say, made a balls up, she will often call that person 'retarded' (normally not to the persons face mind, behind their back - anyone that works in an office knows how it goes) now this word does bother me. I find it very rude and insulting (as I'm sure most Britons do) but she seems to find the word very in-offensive. The strange thing is, she actually finds the word 'stupid' to be very rude, where as here in England this is a very mild insult. I am not sure whether this is a Canadian thing, or a local thing (not sure where in Canada she is from) or just a personal thing. I'd like to tell her to stop using this vulgar word but a part of me says 'it’s a part of her culture - let it be' another part says 'do you need this job?' As a student, the answer is a resounding yes.
<<>>I always say "you guys", even if the group is entirely female.<<
Arrggh, sorry you lot, but this way of addressing people makes me cringe. Of course, it has never bothered me when I have heard an American say it, be it, in a conversation, on the net, in a film or a programme etc etc, they can talk however they want (although I have always found it peculiar - girls calling other girls 'guys' and such like). But due to the proliferation of the American media, my fellow compatriots are starting to pick it up quick style. I'm sorry but urgh!! Please stop. And it comes at the expense of some rather nice words to -boo!!
To these ears, addressing a crowd as 'you people' does sound a tad odd, but not in any way rude. But I suppose it depends largely on where you are from.
I work part-time for an American firm in the city (London) and my guv'nor is a no nonsense Canadian. If a work colleague has, say, made a balls up, she will often call that person 'retarded' (normally not to the persons face mind, behind their back - anyone that works in an office knows how it goes) now this word does bother me. I find it very rude and insulting (as I'm sure most Britons do) but she seems to find the word very in-offensive. The strange thing is, she actually finds the word 'stupid' to be very rude, where as here in England this is a very mild insult. I am not sure whether this is a Canadian thing, or a local thing (not sure where in Canada she is from) or just a personal thing. I'd like to tell her to stop using this vulgar word but a part of me says 'it’s a part of her culture - let it be' another part says 'do you need this job?' As a student, the answer is a resounding yes.
<<>>I always say "you guys", even if the group is entirely female.<<
Arrggh, sorry you lot, but this way of addressing people makes me cringe. Of course, it has never bothered me when I have heard an American say it, be it, in a conversation, on the net, in a film or a programme etc etc, they can talk however they want (although I have always found it peculiar - girls calling other girls 'guys' and such like). But due to the proliferation of the American media, my fellow compatriots are starting to pick it up quick style. I'm sorry but urgh!! Please stop. And it comes at the expense of some rather nice words to -boo!!
>>I work part-time for an American firm in the city (London) and my guv'nor is a no nonsense Canadian. If a work colleague has, say, made a balls up, she will often call that person 'retarded' (normally not to the persons face mind, behind their back - anyone that works in an office knows how it goes) now this word does bother me. I find it very rude and insulting (as I'm sure most Britons do) but she seems to find the word very in-offensive. The strange thing is, she actually finds the word 'stupid' to be very rude, where as here in England this is a very mild insult. I am not sure whether this is a Canadian thing, or a local thing (not sure where in Canada she is from) or just a personal thing. I'd like to tell her to stop using this vulgar word but a part of me says 'it’s a part of her culture - let it be' another part says 'do you need this job?' As a student, the answer is a resounding yes.<<
I would have to agree with you myself - at least here, the word "retarded" is generally considered to be offensive and is strongly deprecated as not being politically correct (and primarily used by people like immature kids and like), whereas "stupid" is very mild when not used to describe a person, and even when used to describe a person, it is generally used to directly describe someone's intelligence rather than as a general-purpose insult, and is primarily only offensive towards those being described as such (rather than being offensive as a word in itself).
>><<>>I always say "you guys", even if the group is entirely female.<<
Arrggh, sorry you lot, but this way of addressing people makes me cringe. Of course, it has never bothered me when I have heard an American say it, be it, in a conversation, on the net, in a film or a programme etc etc, they can talk however they want (although I have always found it peculiar - girls calling other girls 'guys' and such like).<<
This is primarly because the word "you guys" has effectively been grammaticalized as a second person pronoun, and "guys" by itself has followed suit even without the preceding "you" as a word referring to people in general.
>>But due to the proliferation of the American media, my fellow compatriots are starting to pick it up quick style. I'm sorry but urgh!! Please stop.<<
There is not much that we can do about British people picking up usages in North American English dialects in media content, and I doubt we are going to go back to using "you" as a second person plural pronoun in informal speech any time soon.
>>And it comes at the expense of some rather nice words to -boo!!<<
What nice words? At least here, "you guys" has simply replaced using "you" as a second person plural pronoun in informal speech, and "guys" alone has been degendered by analogy; I do not see any words actually being replaced here, the plural usage of "you" aside.
I would have to agree with you myself - at least here, the word "retarded" is generally considered to be offensive and is strongly deprecated as not being politically correct (and primarily used by people like immature kids and like), whereas "stupid" is very mild when not used to describe a person, and even when used to describe a person, it is generally used to directly describe someone's intelligence rather than as a general-purpose insult, and is primarily only offensive towards those being described as such (rather than being offensive as a word in itself).
>><<>>I always say "you guys", even if the group is entirely female.<<
Arrggh, sorry you lot, but this way of addressing people makes me cringe. Of course, it has never bothered me when I have heard an American say it, be it, in a conversation, on the net, in a film or a programme etc etc, they can talk however they want (although I have always found it peculiar - girls calling other girls 'guys' and such like).<<
This is primarly because the word "you guys" has effectively been grammaticalized as a second person pronoun, and "guys" by itself has followed suit even without the preceding "you" as a word referring to people in general.
>>But due to the proliferation of the American media, my fellow compatriots are starting to pick it up quick style. I'm sorry but urgh!! Please stop.<<
There is not much that we can do about British people picking up usages in North American English dialects in media content, and I doubt we are going to go back to using "you" as a second person plural pronoun in informal speech any time soon.
>>And it comes at the expense of some rather nice words to -boo!!<<
What nice words? At least here, "you guys" has simply replaced using "you" as a second person plural pronoun in informal speech, and "guys" alone has been degendered by analogy; I do not see any words actually being replaced here, the plural usage of "you" aside.
I agree with Travis: "retarded" is considered offensive and politically incorrect here in the US, whereas "stupid" (at least when not directed at a person) is considered pretty mild.
I find it strange that somebody would find the word "retarded" inoffensive, but "stupid" offensive... that's completely backwards to me.
I don't find the word "retarded" offensive myself, but I respect the beliefs of those who do, so I usually don't use it when I don't know how the other person will react.
- Kef
I don't find the word "retarded" offensive myself, but I respect the beliefs of those who do, so I usually don't use it when I don't know how the other person will react.
- Kef
I say "y'all" and I am not black. Of course, I live in the mid-south and switch to dialect at times. I've also used "y'uns" and "you guys" BUT not in formal situations LOL.
"If anyone has any questions" is the right way to phrase it. Shatnerian is correct. I don't find anything impolite about the second way "people" was used.
"If anyone has any questions" is the right way to phrase it. Shatnerian is correct. I don't find anything impolite about the second way "people" was used.
I say "y'all" and I am not black. Of course, I live in the mid-south and switch to dialect at times. I've also used "y'uns" and "you guys" BUT not in formal situations LOL.
"If anyone has any questions" is the right way to phrase it. Shatnerian is correct. I don't find anything impolite about the second way "people" was used.
"If anyone has any questions" is the right way to phrase it. Shatnerian is correct. I don't find anything impolite about the second way "people" was used.
"Retarded" and "Retardation" are still used in healthcare and in the medical field, but this may vary by location in the United States. Physicians still use "mental retardation" even if some people don't think this is PC enough...I believe the Kennedy family (or an organization associated with them) was using another term late last year.
The silly name-calling here is just "juvenile" LOL.
The silly name-calling here is just "juvenile" LOL.
At least here, the term that they use is "developmentally disabled" rather than "(mentally) retarded", which has been generally deprecated even when it is not not used in an offensive fashion.
>>I can't see how the use of "you people" is impolite in any way, in any context.......but there again I am British. We tend to view a lot of things quite differently over here. <<
Likewise and I'm not British. But apparently it's perceived as something harsher than impolite; it's perceived as offensive. Even after reading all the responses in this thread, I still fail to see the reasoning.
It must be an American only thing.
Likewise and I'm not British. But apparently it's perceived as something harsher than impolite; it's perceived as offensive. Even after reading all the responses in this thread, I still fail to see the reasoning.
It must be an American only thing.
It's perceived as offensive because it's associated with stereotyping races and ethnicities. Like if you went up to a black man and said "You people are all violent, lazy, good-for-nothings."
>>It's perceived as offensive because it's associated with stereotyping races and ethnicities. Like if you went up to a black man and said "You people are all violent, lazy, good-for-nothings." <<
In that specific context, I would agree and that would go for any culture.
But it's hard to imagine any such implications when addressing a general audience with a generic "you people".
In that specific context, I would agree and that would go for any culture.
But it's hard to imagine any such implications when addressing a general audience with a generic "you people".
So Travis, Lazar and furrkef -judging by your replies, it is not a trans-Atlantic mix up then (assuming you are both from N. America) phew! Maybe she is from a part of Canada that finds 'retard' in-offensive and 'stupid' offensive. I will find out what part of Canada she is from and maybe that will shed some light on this usage. She certainly does not mean to cause any offence, and seems to be oblivious to the way the insult is perceived here. To find offence in the term 'stupid' was puzzling but like I said, I have no clue to the woman’s cultural background so what can I say? I do not think even words such as 'retard' and 'mental retardation' are words used here, even in the medical profession - not 100% about that though.
<<There is not much that we can do about British people picking up usages in North American English dialects in media content, and I doubt we are going to go back to using "you" as a second person plural pronoun in informal speech any time soon.>>
I suppose the distinction between singular 'you and plural 'you' has always needed that extra something. Hence my adding 'lot' to the end of 'you', and many Americans saying y'all etc. You say that 'guys' has been degendered, and, in North America, it would seem so and if the Americans wish to neutralise a word – no worries. In my neck of the woods though ‘guys’ has not been degendered (is degendered a word??). Here, a guy is a guy and a girl is a girl, it is as simple as that. So suddenly hearing this oddity on a daily basis by my fellow countrymen (and women :) ), for me at least, is extremely cringeworthy.
Having to listen to my teachers address my class at college as 'guys' when I am the only 'guy' present makes me cringe (being in a roomful of girls isn’t so sweet as it sounds), hearing girls refer to other girls as ‘guys’ (what is wrong with girls?) REALLY makes me cringe, it just sounds simply too peculiar to these ears.
For me, this form of address is (was) a very unique American usage and so is one that I strongly attribute to Americans. To hear its usage by non-Americans elsewhere, for me, sounds strange. I suppose it is something maybe akin to you hearing most of your fellow compatriots in America suddenly saying very British terms such as ‘blokes’ or referring to an elevator as ‘a lift’. I am sure if you heard fellow Americans in America using these words then it would perhaps sound odd, it just would not sit right. Same thing (in a way) to these ears.
Hearing my 10 year old sister address my mum and dad (and my Nan and granddad for that matter) not only does not sound right, to me, but also sounds rude perhaps even disrespectful? My granddad is even quicker to correct her on that one than me!!
Anyway, I actually seem to be the only sad git that thinks like this regarding the oddity of this new usage and with it yet another change (dare I say Americanism??) to the language, brought here by the American media. But I suppose that is the thing. Despite this new term on its own not being such a big deal, it does allude to a much bigger picture and that is the disappearance of the native language here, which I admit does bother me some what. I see this new term as yet another nail in the coffin of BrE, so to speak (we are running out of nails – and space to put them).
Quite simply though and as you said, I can’t blame the American populace for the effect of its media and I agree completely – I don’t and never have, and the sad fact is nothing can be done about it anyway (it's still a shame though).
Anyway… sorry for going on a bit there mate, I only meant to write a few lines (I told you the usage of the word makes me cringe – I shudder to think how much I’d write about all the ‘I guesses’ I hear!!). I think I will go now (maybe stick my head down the loo and flush it) as I imagine this post probably makes no sense (I always struggle to put into words what I am trying to get at – actually I don’t even know what I am trying to get at anymore).
Ok must dash, adios mate.
<<There is not much that we can do about British people picking up usages in North American English dialects in media content, and I doubt we are going to go back to using "you" as a second person plural pronoun in informal speech any time soon.>>
I suppose the distinction between singular 'you and plural 'you' has always needed that extra something. Hence my adding 'lot' to the end of 'you', and many Americans saying y'all etc. You say that 'guys' has been degendered, and, in North America, it would seem so and if the Americans wish to neutralise a word – no worries. In my neck of the woods though ‘guys’ has not been degendered (is degendered a word??). Here, a guy is a guy and a girl is a girl, it is as simple as that. So suddenly hearing this oddity on a daily basis by my fellow countrymen (and women :) ), for me at least, is extremely cringeworthy.
Having to listen to my teachers address my class at college as 'guys' when I am the only 'guy' present makes me cringe (being in a roomful of girls isn’t so sweet as it sounds), hearing girls refer to other girls as ‘guys’ (what is wrong with girls?) REALLY makes me cringe, it just sounds simply too peculiar to these ears.
For me, this form of address is (was) a very unique American usage and so is one that I strongly attribute to Americans. To hear its usage by non-Americans elsewhere, for me, sounds strange. I suppose it is something maybe akin to you hearing most of your fellow compatriots in America suddenly saying very British terms such as ‘blokes’ or referring to an elevator as ‘a lift’. I am sure if you heard fellow Americans in America using these words then it would perhaps sound odd, it just would not sit right. Same thing (in a way) to these ears.
Hearing my 10 year old sister address my mum and dad (and my Nan and granddad for that matter) not only does not sound right, to me, but also sounds rude perhaps even disrespectful? My granddad is even quicker to correct her on that one than me!!
Anyway, I actually seem to be the only sad git that thinks like this regarding the oddity of this new usage and with it yet another change (dare I say Americanism??) to the language, brought here by the American media. But I suppose that is the thing. Despite this new term on its own not being such a big deal, it does allude to a much bigger picture and that is the disappearance of the native language here, which I admit does bother me some what. I see this new term as yet another nail in the coffin of BrE, so to speak (we are running out of nails – and space to put them).
Quite simply though and as you said, I can’t blame the American populace for the effect of its media and I agree completely – I don’t and never have, and the sad fact is nothing can be done about it anyway (it's still a shame though).
Anyway… sorry for going on a bit there mate, I only meant to write a few lines (I told you the usage of the word makes me cringe – I shudder to think how much I’d write about all the ‘I guesses’ I hear!!). I think I will go now (maybe stick my head down the loo and flush it) as I imagine this post probably makes no sense (I always struggle to put into words what I am trying to get at – actually I don’t even know what I am trying to get at anymore).
Ok must dash, adios mate.