Do you like Brazilian Portuguese?

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Wikipedia   Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:57 pm GMT
Oldest Universities by Country or Region (post-1500)
The majority of European countries had universities by 1500. After 1500, universities began to spread to other countries all over the world:

Americas: Universidad Autonoma de Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic, 1538
Australia: University of Sydney, 1850
Baltic States: Vilnius University, 1579, many times closed and reopened
Bosnia-Herzegovina: University of Sarajevo, 1940, successor to the Sharia Law School founded in 1531
Bulgaria: University of Sofia, 1888
Canada: Université Laval, 1663; University of New Brunswick is the oldest English language university in Canada, founded in 1785
Estonia: University of Tartu, 1802, successor to Academia Gustaviana (1632-1710)
Finland: University of Helsinki, 1827, which claims continuity with the Academy of Åbo (1640)
Hong Kong: University of Hong Kong, 1912, evolved from the Hong Kong College of Medicine, founded in 1887
India: University of Calcutta, 1857, the oldest full fledged university in South Asia
Ireland: Trinity College, Dublin, 1592
Israel: Technion, 1924
Japan: University of Tokyo, 1877
Mexico: National Autonomous University of Mexico, 1551
Netherlands: University of Leiden, 1575
New Zealand: University of Otago, 1863
North America: National Autonomous University of Mexico, 1551
Norway: University of Oslo, 1811
Peru: National University of San Marcos, 1551
Philippines: University of San Carlos, 1595
Russia: either Moscow University, 1755 or St Petersburg University (1724-1803, 1819) or Kant University (1544-1945, 1967)
South Africa: University of Cape Town, 1829
South Asia: Serampore College with university status (though not a university), 1818
Thailand: Chulalongkorn University, 1917
Ukraine: University of Lviv, 1661
U.S.: Harvard University, 1636, earlier than the College of William and Mary, but William and Mary was the first college in the U.S. to achieve university status, in 1779

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_universities_in_continuous_operation
The Empire of Brazil   Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:12 pm GMT
The Empire of Brazil (1640-1822)
In 1661 the Portuguese gave Bombay to England as part of a dowry, and over the next hundred years the British became the dominant power in India, excluding other powers almost completely from trading there. Portugal was able to cling onto Goa and several minor bases through the remainder of the colonial period.

In 1755 Lisbon suffered a catastrophic earthquake, which together with a subsequent tsunami killed more than 100,000 people out of a population of 275,000. This sharply checked Portuguese colonial ambitions in the late 18th century.

Although initially less important, Brazil would become the main centre for Portuguese colonial ambitions, from which Portugal gathered resources such as gold, precious stones, sugar cane, coffee and other cash crops. Voluntary immigration from Europe and the slave trade from Africa increasing its population immensely (today Brazil is the largest Portuguese-speaking country in the world).

Unlike the Spanish, Portuguese did not divide its colonial territory in America. The captaincies there created were subdued to a centralized administration in Salvador which reported directly to the Crown in Lisbon.

In 1789, there was the Inconfidência Mineira, a rebel movement that failed, and the leader of which, Tiradentes, was hanged.

In 1808, the French troops of Napoleon Bonaparte invaded Portugal, and Dom João, governor in place of his mother, Dona Maria I, ordered the transfer of the royal court to Brazil. Brazil was elevated to the condition of a Reino Unido de Portugal e Algarve (1815). There was also the election of Brazilian representatives to the Cortes Constitucionais Portuguesas (Portuguese Constitutional Courts).

The King of Portugal, fleeing before Napoleon's army, moved the seat of government to Brazil in 1808. Brazil thereupon became a kingdom under Dom João VI. Although the royal family returned to Portugal in 1821, the interlude led to a growing desire for independence amongst Brazilians, In 1822, the son of Dom João VI, then prince-regent Dom Pedro I, proclaimed the independence, September 7, 1822, and was crowned emperor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Empire
Robert   Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:19 pm GMT
>afinal, era desejo deles permanecer no
controle da situação, um povo instruído não se deixaria dominar; era
mais fácil enviar os filhos dos portugueses comerciantes ricos para
as universidades da metrópole. Isso sem contar que, para que
tivéssemos nossa indenpendência reconhecida por Portugal, assumimos
a dívia que este tinha com a Inglaterra, dando início assim ao nosso
processo de endividamento externo, diminuindo nossas possibilidades
de investir no social.<



>after all, it was desire of them to remain in the control of the situation, an instructed people would not let be dominated; it was more easy to send the children of the rich trading Portuguese for the universities of the metropolis. This without counting that, for us to have our recognized independence by Portugal, we assumed the debt that they had with England, making it the beginning to our process of external indebtedness, diminishing our possibilities to invest in the social one<


Instructed people did not let to be dominated?? How? They fight with a pen?What do you do to the canons?Throw books? Brave warriors do not let them self be dominated. That is what they have proved.

Read what they did to have an Empire, what have you Brazilians done? Instructed people? They taught Latin and Greek it does not seem you have the same quality education that they gave you centuries ago. Children of the rich? Where did you get that one? Anyone that really wanted to learn would find a way and would not be difficult to find work on a ship and find work to pay for the studies if they were not free. It looks for what I already read that if the person was a good student they probably invested on the person.


The debt you assumed was to pay the English, the oldest allies of the Portuguese, for helping them to send the French troops away from their lands it seems they fought side by side. By the way where were the Brazilians? Did they help in anyway? Sent troops , or a fleet to help the Portuguese?? I can’t read anything about it except the fact that you were founding schools while they were fighting a war? Where was your help? Can you update that information? Did you let them to die?? Or you went to help them?

It looks you are blaming them for your debts and are using that as an excuse for your social problems? Did I get that right?

You complain about what you paid, can you tell me how much you paid your land per square meter just for us to have an idea. And by the way how many lives they paid for Brazil?? With so many gold mines it must have been very difficult for you to pay them something.

If the British thought their home land and their people was worth that money and we look at the size of Portugal how much were your lands worth? Less than theirs?
Mike   Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:50 pm GMT
"1st university in Brazil: 1912 (opened by Brazilians, not by Portuguese)

1st university in Peru: National University of San Marcos, 1551 (opened by Spanish)
1st university in Mexico: National Autonomous University of Mexico, 1551 (opened by Spanish) "


Man, it took you a while...
Alison   Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:19 pm GMT
Robert wrote:


>>>If the British thought their home land and their people was worth that money and we look at the size of Portugal how much were your lands worth? Less than theirs?<<<

It was to pay for the lives of British soldiers, military equipment and help, not the value of the Portuguese lands and people. That was how much they thought their help was worth. The price they charged we accepted not complained.
Alison   Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:21 pm GMT
Glêysson wrote:

>>>Eu acho que o Lula está certo mesmo e os portugueses têm consciência de que a colonização deles foi uma droga, tanto que riram.<<<
>>>I find that Lula is right and the Portuguese have conscience that colonisation was a drug, so much that they laughed. <<<

Yes, they laughed because they took it as a joke.


“Lula asks for the aid of Portugal, in crisis with the Foot and Mouth Disease
The president also asked for to the government of Portugal to facilitate the process of legalization of the Brazilians in the country initiated in July of 2003.[…]
[…]he asked that the Portuguese authorities exempt poor Brazilian immigrants of the payment of the relative fines to be in the country after expired the tourist visa - the fines are in average of 600 euros (about R$ 1,8 a thousand) for person. "I have a request
. “That Portugal can pardon the debt as pardons the debts of the poor countries.""
[...]”I ask that [Portugal] helps to facilitate the agreement between the Mercosul and the European Union, […]”
[...]In the afternoon, president Lula and the Portuguese president, Jorge Sampaio, awarded the Camões Prize to the [Brazilian] writer Lygia Fagundes Telles. It is the main prize of the Portuguese language literature, it came with a check of 100 thousand euros.”
100000 Euros = 260190 Brazilian Reais

http://www.bbc.co.uk/portuguese/reporterbbc/story/2005/10/051013_jaircoletivacg.shtml



>>>it was more easy to send the children of the rich trading Portuguese for the universities of the metropolis.<<<

The rich traders were Portuguese the poor ones were Brazilians. That was a brilliant comment!!!!

“The country has the world's fourth largest student population in the tertiary sector and the number of university students has grown by around a fifth in the past five years to 3 million. However, only 8% of 25 to 64-year-olds have attended university, and campaigners say bias in the system prevents black pupils and those educated in state schools from securing a place.
According to the Institute of Applied Economic Research (IPEA), the average black Brazilian possesses five years of education compared with the eight years accumulated by a white Brazilian, and is also two and a half times poorer.
Last year 65% of university students were educated at private secondary schools and two out of three were drawn from the wealthiest 20% of the population.”
http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/worldwide/story/0,9959,1012157,00.html
Alison   Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:25 pm GMT
Viviane wrote:

>>>Somente em 1920 surge a Universidade do Rio de Janeiro, hoje Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro, que reunia os cursos superiores da cidade, a saber: a Escola Politécnica, a Faculdade de Medicina e a Faculdade de Direito - que surgira a partir da fusão da Faculdade Livre de Direito e da Faculdade de Ciências Jurídicas e Sociais. O decreto que oficializa a universidade é o de nº 14.343, de 7 de setembro de 1920<<<


>>>Only in 1920 appears the University of Rio de Janeiro, today called Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro, it congregated the superior courses of the city: the Polytechnical School, the College of Medicine and the Law school - it resulted from the merging of the Faculty Livre de Direito and the Faculty de Ciências Jurídicas e Sociais.<<<


Your University is the merging of a group of schools and colleges that were opened a long time ago.

It took you from 1822 to 1912, about 90 years to open a University??? Just to merge the schools??? What were you doing in the mean time? Fighting for an empire?


>>>1st university in Brazil: 1912 (opened by Brazilians, not by Portuguese)

1st university in Peru: National University of San Marcos, 1551 (opened by Spanish)
1st university in Mexico: National Autonomous University of Mexico, 1551 (opened by Spanish)

Portuguese people never invested culturally in Brazil. Spanish DID invest heavily in its overseas territories.<<<

Complain to your Universities that give the wrong information to the public…It seems you do not want to recognize them as universities…

“Largo São Francisco is a traditional Law School located in São Paulo, Brazil, founded by Brazilian regent Dom Pedro I in 1827. It is claimed to be the first university in Brazil, although two other academic institutions, specifically from Olinda and Manaus, also dispute such title.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largo_S%C3%A3o_Francisco
Thathyanne   Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:32 pm GMT
Alison is tells lies. 1st university in Brazil was opened in the 20th century, according to Encarta 2001 (Brazilian translation).
Thathyanne   Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:34 pm GMT
Alison tells lies. 1st university in Brazil was opened in the 20th century, according to Encarta 2001 (Brazilian translation), which is 400 years too late, compared with universities in Mexico, Peru or Santo Domingo (in today's Republica Dominicana)
Naldo   Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:09 pm GMT
«Last year 65% of university students were educated at private secondary schools and two out of three were drawn from the wealthiest 20% of the population.” »

Rather than blaming the Portuguese of things for 150 years or more ago, isn't it a shame that now you control Brazil yourselves, it is still the poor, through their heavily taxed salaries ,that pay for the rich, who pay relatively little( dão um jeitinho), to get their education?
Alison   Thu Dec 01, 2005 6:05 pm GMT
"Never utter these words: 'I do not know this, therefore it is false.' One must study to know; know to understand; understand to judge."
~ Apothegm of Narda
brazilêra   Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:10 am GMT
dexem a gentch in paiç
Cacique   Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:49 pm GMT
Blame the indians they never opened a university before the arrival of the Portuguese in 1500. They never invested in Brazil. Europe had many Universities South America none :*)


• University of Bologna, Italy – founded 1088
• University of Paris, France – founded 1150
• University of Oxford, England – founded before 1167
• University of Palencia, Spain – founded 1212
• University of Lisbon, Portugal – founded 1290
• University of Lérida – founded 1300
• Charles University of Prague, Czech Republic – founded 1348
• Jagiellonian University, Krakow, Poland – founded 1364
• University of Vienna, Austria – founded 1365
• University of Pécs, Hungary – founded 1367
• University of Erfurt, Germany – founded 1379
• University of St Andrews, Scotland – founded 1413 by papal bull
• University of Leuven, Belgium – founded 1425
• Istanbul University, Turkey – founded 1453
• University of Basel, Switzerland – founded 1460
• University of Bratislava (Universitas Istropolitana), Slovakia – founded 1465
• University of Uppsala, Sweden – founded 1477
• University of Copenhagen, Denmark – founded 1479

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_university
TUPYNIKIN   Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:36 pm GMT
ew sow brazilêru
sow tupynikin
Viviane   Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:08 am GMT
''Mas um mesmo texto lido em voz alta por um brasileiro e por um
português vai soar completamente diferente, ou melhor; difrente! Aliás, faça você mesmo a experiência: tente tirar a letra de uma música cantada por um cantor ou uma cantora da "terrinha" e veja como é difícil! E por incrível que pareça, um dos principais obstáculos para a
difusão no Brasil do cinema feito em Portugal é justamente.., A língua — além das dificuldades de
distribuição, ligadas ao quase monopólio do cinema americano. Como os brasileiros têm dificuldades em entender o português de Portugal, e como ficaria no mínimo estranho colocar legendas em filmes portugueses, o resultado é que praticamente nunca se vê filme
português nos cinemas daqui. Temos a impressão de que Portugal não produz cinema, o que é falso: há bons cineastas portugueses, um dos quais, Manuel d'Oliveira, é reconhecido internacionalmente como um grande diretor.''

MARCOS ARAÚJO BAGNO em *Preconceito lingüístico*
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