Do you like Brazilian Portuguese?
Professor
»»O que mais se houve é: “PORTUGUÊS É MUITO DIFÍCIL”
Porque o português falado é diferente do português escrito de forma culta.»»
Estamos de acordo Professor. Todavia esta é uma questão comum a todas as línguas. Sempre foi assim. Houve tempo em que no território de Portugal a língua falada e escrita pelas élites era o Latim. Só a partir de D. Dinis se oficializou que a língua falada e escrita em Portugal seria o português que na altura era chamado galaico-português. Nessa altura a língua espanhola era corrente no território que viria a ser Portugal. O árabe era outra língua corrente.
O português de então era muito diferente do português de hoje. A gramática não existia. Quando apareceram as gramáticas, a gramática teve em Portugal a função de normalizar a língua de modo certamente reaccionário, normativo e questionável. Mas, como a língua foi mudando, a gramática foi mudando embora sempre reacionária, normativa e questionávelmente. Não será essa a natureza e a função da gramática?
Qual é afinal a sua questão? O que impede que os gramáticos do Brasil escrevam uma gramática para a variante brasileira do Português? Será que o Brasil não é um país livre? Os cabovedenaos escreveream a sua própria gramática para validarem o seu kabuverdianu que é o vernacular de facto de Cabo Verde. Estão felizes porque finalmente se entendem todos muito bem.
Qual é afinal a sua questão?
Alison
»»Nessa altura a língua espanhola era corrente no território que viria a ser Portugal.»»
Obivously I was referring to the language that would become the dominant language of Spain. You may call it whatever you want.
By the way, Spanish (Castillian?)was currently spoken in Portugual for long periods of time. I am not suggesting that it was the language of Portugal but it was one of the languages widely used. Some early Portuguese writers were bilingual and wrote in both languages. It was not unsual for portuguese natives to be fluent in Spanish (Castillian?).
»»Spain did not exist as a country for a long time»».
It is a given. We all know that. Portugal is the oldest european country with permanent borders. Spain was formed much later.
Creo que el portugues braziliana ha perdido toda su originalidad. La versión portuguesa es mucho más viable y creativa.
Professor
»»O que mais se houve é: “PORTUGUÊS É MUITO DIFÍCIL”
HOUVE é uma forma do verbo HAVER
OUVE é uma forma do verbo OUVIR
A gente num tamo sacanu portugeis
Qndo agent entra na facu d letras pensa q todo mundo vai cobrar da gent um portugues perfeito, e confesso q fiquei morrendo d medo disso. Mas isso n é exclusivo dos calouros nao, ate hj tem colegas q ainda n entenderam isso. Dificil msm é fazer as pessoas entenderem q existe a variaçao linguistica e o q n existe é essa ideia d q nós devemos ter uma gramática decorada na cabeça.
Mariana wrote:
>>>Obivously I was referring to the language that would become the dominant language of Spain. You may call it whatever you want.<<<
I just call it anachronism. ;O)
>>>By the way, Spanish (Castillian?)was currently spoken in Portugual for long periods of time. I am not suggesting that it was the language of Portugal but it was one of the languages widely used. Some early Portuguese writers were bilingual and wrote in both languages. It was not unsual for portuguese natives to be fluent in Spanish (Castillian?).<<<
But I agree with you that it was not unusual to Portuguese natives to be fluent in Castillan. There was literary work written in Castillan but people did not speak with each other in Castillan.
Just like today there are many Portuguese fluent in Spanish, English or French only we do not refer to these languages as being “corrente em Portugal”.
So I would not say Castillan was currently spoken in Portugal or that it was widely used.
Luciana wrote:
>>>Dificil msm é fazer as pessoas entenderem q existe a variaçao linguistica e o q n existe é essa ideia d q nós devemos ter uma gramática decorada na cabeça.<<<
You mean you go to the University in Brazil take a course in Portuguese language and you do not memorise the grammar so it is all right to make grammar mistakes?
You mean you go to the University in Brazil take a course in Portuguese language and you do not memorise the grammar so it is all right to make grammar mistakes?
Yes, all we know one should say ITi IS I, IT WAS SHE in English, but the grammar mistakes IT'S ME, IT WAS HIM is so widespread in English it cannot be ignored... Some professors of English are ok with IT'S ME; some still will only accept IT IS I in an essay...
Alison
»»There was literary work written in Castillan but people did not speak with each other in Castillan. »»
How can you be so sure?
Obviously Castillian was currently spoken in the territories that would become Portugal because those territorires were under Castillian rule.
That is why I wrote
»»Nessa altura a língua espanhola era corrente no território que VIRIA a a ser Portugal.»»
By the way, most likely Castillian was probabbly the language spoken by D. Afonso Henriques our first king and his mother D. Tereja.
"In the EU people prefer what is European" I don't think so because nowadays on the European airports (for example) you'll see American terms more often than British ones. When I was on the airport in Paris I saw the term "cart" instead of "trolley" or the term "baggage" instead of "luggage" but Paris is in Europe!
Larissa
British English is still very well regarded in Europe. Schools in the Continent will first hire English teachers with the UK accent before they will hire a teacher with an American accent. Most people in Europe strive to get the British accent because it is more prestigious.
I woull say that American English is less prestigous than UK English in the EU.
"I woull say that American English is less prestigous than UK English in the EU." OK then but why do they use American terms in international business?
Larissa
American English is dominant in the world of business and technology aroundthe world. As far as teaching and learning English in the Continent, people will prefer the British accent over the American accent because it is more prestigious.
