I was wondering if Midwesterners could generally spot a Northwestern accent? Is it at all noticeable, or can they not usually here any difference at all? I know we can usually spot a Midwestern accent (especially an Inland North or North Central accent) a mile away.
Can Midwesterners distinguish the NW accent?
Northwesterner, I doubt this very much, i.e. if you're referring to the ones with NCVS.
In my own experience, those citizens are utterly convinced that they have no accent, even though we Westerners can spot it a mile away. In fact, they get pretty huffy about it. I don't think these citizens can hear the sounds, in much the same way that we Americans can't generally hear all the tones in the Chinese language.
The citizens in Iowa, etc? I don't know; if I find one, I'll ask.
In my own experience, those citizens are utterly convinced that they have no accent, even though we Westerners can spot it a mile away. In fact, they get pretty huffy about it. I don't think these citizens can hear the sounds, in much the same way that we Americans can't generally hear all the tones in the Chinese language.
The citizens in Iowa, etc? I don't know; if I find one, I'll ask.
Well, they both have the Northern cities vowel shift, and the cot caught merger so they sound pretty much the same. It's hard to miss theeat eeacksent from Northwesterners and Midwesterners.
Pacific Northwestern accents are generally not as distinct as Midwestern, Northeastern, or Southern accents, but as a non-native living in the area, I can definitely hear some of the characteristics.
However, as I have said on this forum before, there is something of an accept gap in the Pacific Northwest. Older Northwesterners, on the average, seem to have a completely different accent than native Northwesterners under the age of thirty. It seems that the younger generation has an accent closer to that of California, whereas the older generations can sound more like toned-down Upper Midwesterners or people from the Northern Midlands. Of course, this all depends on which part of the Pacific Northwest. People from Seattle, Tacoma, Olympia, and Portland sound pretty much the same, but I have noticed a subtle difference in the way people from central and southwestern Oregon speak. In general, it seems to be closer to the Eastern Cascades accent, but with more Californian influences. Natives in parts of Eastern Washington, Eastern Oregon, and Idaho can sometimes sound twangy, but as I pointed out in an earlier post, it is a bit different from the twang found in the lower Midwest and Southeastern United States. If you go up to rural northern Washington, you will find accents that sound fairly identical to the ones found in rural southern British Columbia.
I am not sure why younger Northwesterners have decided to take on a somewhat stereotypical Californian way of speaking, but I am guessing that it has to do with the large California migration to the region, as well as influences from television and movies.
What is interesting is that many Northwesterners, especially the older ones, are hesitant to comment on my own accent, but transplants from California find it incredibly odd and very non-western. Just the other day, when I used the word "all" in a sentence when speaking to an ex-Californian, he admitted that he had never heard it pronounced with the [O] vowel, and it took him several attempts to understand what I was trying to say.
However, as I have said on this forum before, there is something of an accept gap in the Pacific Northwest. Older Northwesterners, on the average, seem to have a completely different accent than native Northwesterners under the age of thirty. It seems that the younger generation has an accent closer to that of California, whereas the older generations can sound more like toned-down Upper Midwesterners or people from the Northern Midlands. Of course, this all depends on which part of the Pacific Northwest. People from Seattle, Tacoma, Olympia, and Portland sound pretty much the same, but I have noticed a subtle difference in the way people from central and southwestern Oregon speak. In general, it seems to be closer to the Eastern Cascades accent, but with more Californian influences. Natives in parts of Eastern Washington, Eastern Oregon, and Idaho can sometimes sound twangy, but as I pointed out in an earlier post, it is a bit different from the twang found in the lower Midwest and Southeastern United States. If you go up to rural northern Washington, you will find accents that sound fairly identical to the ones found in rural southern British Columbia.
I am not sure why younger Northwesterners have decided to take on a somewhat stereotypical Californian way of speaking, but I am guessing that it has to do with the large California migration to the region, as well as influences from television and movies.
What is interesting is that many Northwesterners, especially the older ones, are hesitant to comment on my own accent, but transplants from California find it incredibly odd and very non-western. Just the other day, when I used the word "all" in a sentence when speaking to an ex-Californian, he admitted that he had never heard it pronounced with the [O] vowel, and it took him several attempts to understand what I was trying to say.
>>Northwesterner, I doubt this very much, i.e. if you're referring to the ones with NCVS.
In my own experience, those citizens are utterly convinced that they have no accent, even though we Westerners can spot it a mile away. In fact, they get pretty huffy about it. I don't think these citizens can hear the sounds, in much the same way that we Americans can't generally hear all the tones in the Chinese language.<<
That is because to them, that *is* how English is pronounced; they do not think of themselves as having accents, for to them what they speak *is* Standard English. Rather, they would likely perceive you as having an accent, even if you think of your own speech as "standard".
In my own experience, those citizens are utterly convinced that they have no accent, even though we Westerners can spot it a mile away. In fact, they get pretty huffy about it. I don't think these citizens can hear the sounds, in much the same way that we Americans can't generally hear all the tones in the Chinese language.<<
That is because to them, that *is* how English is pronounced; they do not think of themselves as having accents, for to them what they speak *is* Standard English. Rather, they would likely perceive you as having an accent, even if you think of your own speech as "standard".
<<Well, they both have the Northern cities vowel shift, and the cot caught merger so they sound pretty much the same. It's hard to miss theeat eeacksent from Northwesterners and Midwesterners.>>
There's only a small part of the Upper Midwest with both of these phenomena; the NCVS generally makes an accent "immune" to the cot-caught merger, and being c-c merged generally blocks the NCVS as well. I've never heard of Northwesterners having the NCVS either; in fact, they seem to be influenced by the Californian or Canadian Vowel Shift that actually moves the opposite direction, with fully back, possibly rounded and raised COT/THOUGHT and low, backed TRAP.
There's only a small part of the Upper Midwest with both of these phenomena; the NCVS generally makes an accent "immune" to the cot-caught merger, and being c-c merged generally blocks the NCVS as well. I've never heard of Northwesterners having the NCVS either; in fact, they seem to be influenced by the Californian or Canadian Vowel Shift that actually moves the opposite direction, with fully back, possibly rounded and raised COT/THOUGHT and low, backed TRAP.
One thing that should be noted is that diphthongization of historical /{/ to a falling or centering diphthong is not the same thing as the NCVS, as the NCVS *at least* also involves the fronting of historical /A:/ to [a] or [{], and generally also involves the lowering of historical /O:/ to [Q] (and potentially its unrounding to [A]) and the centralization of historical /E/ and /I/.
Whoops - I should not have used "falling diphthong" here, as it is sometimes used with different meanings; rather, what I meant is vowels which go from higher in the vowel space to lower in the vowel space.
<<That is because to them, that *is* how English is pronounced; they do not think of themselves as having accents, for to them what they speak *is* Standard English. Rather, they would likely perceive you as having an accent, even if you think of your own speech as "standard". >>
Travis, I am not sure I can agree with you, ol' buddy; in their (NCVS speakers) case, they cannot seem to hear the sounds themselves. They really do seem to think they speak exactly like Westerners.
Travis, I am not sure I can agree with you, ol' buddy; in their (NCVS speakers) case, they cannot seem to hear the sounds themselves. They really do seem to think they speak exactly like Westerners.
Shatner:
My own little field experiment backs up your statement 100%, viz, some NCVS influence in older NW speakers, but some CVS in the younger ones. It seemed an odd dichotomy, to say the least. You're probably spot-on about the reasons for this, i.e. vast immigration from California in the 1980s--at least in the Seattle area. I would say that younger speakers have absorbed some CVS through osmosis.
Moreover, your comment about Eastern Washington/Oregon having a "twang" seems to be based on fact, too, although I was only able to interview a single speaker from that area; I noticed what seemed to be a "Rocky Mountain" influence in his speech. I wish I could get more samples from that area.
I've never heard Rural British Columbia; what are some of its features?
My own little field experiment backs up your statement 100%, viz, some NCVS influence in older NW speakers, but some CVS in the younger ones. It seemed an odd dichotomy, to say the least. You're probably spot-on about the reasons for this, i.e. vast immigration from California in the 1980s--at least in the Seattle area. I would say that younger speakers have absorbed some CVS through osmosis.
Moreover, your comment about Eastern Washington/Oregon having a "twang" seems to be based on fact, too, although I was only able to interview a single speaker from that area; I noticed what seemed to be a "Rocky Mountain" influence in his speech. I wish I could get more samples from that area.
I've never heard Rural British Columbia; what are some of its features?
>> some NCVS influence in older NW speakers <<
Hmm. I don't think it's really NCVS that you're hearing, as isn't that a rather recent phenomenon? I think it's probably more the lack of the CVS that you hear that makes it sound like the NCVS. Also we're basically 100% cot-caught merged, as even the 90 year olds that I know that are from here have it.
>> Moreover, your comment about Eastern Washington/Oregon having a "twang" seems to be based on fact <<
Yeah, I've noticed this too, and I think it has to do with the extreme fronting of /o/.
Hmm. I don't think it's really NCVS that you're hearing, as isn't that a rather recent phenomenon? I think it's probably more the lack of the CVS that you hear that makes it sound like the NCVS. Also we're basically 100% cot-caught merged, as even the 90 year olds that I know that are from here have it.
>> Moreover, your comment about Eastern Washington/Oregon having a "twang" seems to be based on fact <<
Yeah, I've noticed this too, and I think it has to do with the extreme fronting of /o/.
>> They really do seem to think they speak exactly like Westerners. <<
So does this mean that they'd be completely unable to even hear a Western accent?
So does this mean that they'd be completely unable to even hear a Western accent?
GUEST:
If my theory is correct, the answer to your question would be: Yes, they're completely unable to hear a Western accent.
Tell you what I'll do--I'll go ask the interviewees. Get back to ya.
If my theory is correct, the answer to your question would be: Yes, they're completely unable to hear a Western accent.
Tell you what I'll do--I'll go ask the interviewees. Get back to ya.
Hmm. Can someone explain exactly what a Northwestern accent sounds like using non-technical terms? Is it really that different from a Midwestern accent? Does it sound like a Minnesota accent?