Polite invitations

"Not every person who goes on business overseas has the opportunity to dig into another culture and master the niceties. Honestly, if I were to quiz you on doing business in France or Japan, how would YOU do?"

From K. T.

BTW, M56, you sure are smug.

The matter is also that just because some people overseas are more used to English English and formal speech in it than formal speech in North American English does not mean that North Americans abroad should necessarily adopt formal English English usage. This is just as much a matter of lack of familiarity with North American English on other individuals' part, which is something that is being overlooked here.

I think it also has to do with being savvy about business. Which party needs the business/the contract?

"Maybe we should ask all the Mexicans to behave like Americans. I'm never wearing a rag on my head when I go to the Arab world. Never."


Although this is a strong sentiment, I understand this. Mexicans in the US should learn English if they plan to stay here. I don't think anyone wants you to wear any special headgear if you are a male visiting the Arab world.

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I think it's okay to use more formal forms of English if the situation calls for it.

A few years ago someone (probably very shy) came up to me to practice English (in a social setting)..."It is very fine today." He said. I almost burst out laughing. I never say anything like that (of course), but I managed to stifle my amusement into a smile and say something in return.

<Not every person who goes on business overseas has the opportunity to dig into another culture and master the niceties. Honestly, if I were to quiz you on doing business in France or Japan, how would YOU do? >

"How do you do" is recognised world wide as a greeting. If American businessmen/women are not aware of that...

<BTW, M56, you sure are smug. >

What's smug about relating one's experiences with American businessmen/women?

<"Maybe we should ask all the Mexicans to behave like Americans. I'm never wearing a rag on my head when I go to the Arab world. Never." >

Would you recommend that Western businesswomen also refuse to wear head covering when they do business in certain Arab states?

<Mexicans in the US should learn English if they plan to stay here.>

Should non-Spanish speakers living in the US also have to learn Spanish? I say "YES".

Should Castillano speakers have to use "please" when they visit Britain or the USA?

"What's smug about relating one's experiences with American businessmen/women?"

It's not just that comment.

I won't have good manners if I say much more than what I've already said.

>><Not every person who goes on business overseas has the opportunity to dig into another culture and master the niceties. Honestly, if I were to quiz you on doing business in France or Japan, how would YOU do? >

"How do you do" is recognised world wide as a greeting. If American businessmen/women are not aware of that...<<

The matter, though, is that it is specific to particular groups of English dialects; saying that North Americans should use "how do you do?" abroad is essentially saying that North Americans should not speak North American English abroad if those that they encounter are more familiar with, say, English English. Somehow I doubt that many North Americans would be willing to switch to English English just because some foreigners happen to be more familiar with it (save the likes of Madonna, of course).

(The reason why "how do you do" is recognized world wide as a greeting, as you say, is probably just that English English is widely taught to non-native speakers, in numbers disproportionate to the actual numbers of native English English-speakers versus NAE-speakers. This results in things like a particular coworker of mine speaking almost Hugh Grant-esque cut-class RP despite working in the US and being originally from Germany.)

You think "How do you do?" is "English English", then? I always think of it as simply formal English.

>><Mexicans in the US should learn English if they plan to stay here.>

Should non-Spanish speakers living in the US also have to learn Spanish? I say "YES".<<

Why exactly? Aside from some languages being still used as home languages in some families, such as Chinese languages and Vietnamese, most immigrant languages here, such as German, Polish, and Italian are dead or very close to, and practically everyone born here today speaks English natively. Why should people be forced to learn a particular immigrant language just because it happens to be spoken by a large number of people today, especially since said immigrants' children here will almost certainly natively speak English anyways? (And that is especially considering that Spanish is not widely spoken here in general outside of populations which already speak Spanish despite the proliferation of Spanish-language signage.)

>>Should Castillano speakers have to use "please" when they visit Britain or the USA?<<

Yes, simply because that's an aspect of common courtesy in English-speaking areas in general. This differs from the whole matter about "how do you do?", which is really due to differences between some native English-speakers' own dialects *and* standard languages and what other people, who very well may not be native English-speakers, have been taught.

>>You think "How do you do?" is "English English", then? I always think of it as simply formal English.<<

The thing is that it is not used much in even quite formal North American English, unlike some other usages such as the aforementioned "nice to meet you".

<< Should non-Spanish speakers living in the US also have to learn Spanish? I say "YES". >>

Why? Although I am indeed learning Spanish, I do so only for my own enjoyment, certainly not out of any perceived need. I think it could be useful, but that doesn't necessarily create a need. Lots of other things I could do instead would also be useful, probably even more so in both the short and the long term. If I put as much effort into learning 3D modeling as I do into Spanish and Japanese, I might actually have some semblance of a career. ;)

- Kef