Can British people pretend to speak like Americans?

>>I suspect that the actual pronunciation was more like [kO:nE?VU]. I've never heard of an EngEng accent with /t/ elision like in North America.<<

I figured something with [?] - I was just somewhat saying that the "eye-dialect" spelling "corne'o" is somewhat ambiguous as to whether /t/ elision or glottal-stopping has occurred.

>>I suspect that the actual pronunciation was more like [kO:nE?VU]. I've never heard of an EngEng accent with /t/ elision like in North America.<<

On that note, do you have any clue as to how widespread [4] elision, or at least /t/ elision, is in NAE dialects? It seems relatively widespread, but definitely not universal, to have some degree of [4] elision, but at the same time I haven't heard of any dialects from outside this general area which have the degree of [4] elision that can be found in the speech of younger people here.

That seems to be how I've seen it as well, as it is very widespread throughout all of NAE to have it in, say, "little", but then at the same time there are definitely people who simply do not have it. Of course, then, the pattern of elision followed by desyllabicization of a following syllabic consonant which occurs here (making, say, "better" be [bE:R] rather than [bER=:] in everyday speech here) is probably more limited in range. However, the informal spelling "li'l" implies that such desyllabicization may not just be limited to this general area, even if it is limited to just "little".

<<What's a "pikey", anyway?>>

An Irish traveller/Gypsy, but some people use it as a term of abuse for any other lower class people.

<<Nick Frost's delivery of "Cornetto" when he was asking for ice cream, for example. It wasn't until I listened to the explanation on the commentary that I had any idea what he was saying -- firstly, because he said something more like "corne'o", and secondly, because I've never heard the name "Cornetto" before in my life -- as the commentators pointed out, int he US it's known as a "Nutty Buddy". (And in the US, that rhymes. ;P)>>

Yeah - undoubtedly sounds more "American". Are the names of icecreams are translated for you, too? :-)

<<I figured something with [?] - I was just somewhat saying that the "eye-dialect" spelling "corne'o" is somewhat ambiguous as to whether /t/ elision or glottal-stopping has occurred.>>

That must have been glottal-stopping - /t/ elision is not as common in British dialects if not totally uncommon.

<<The cockney spoken in Lock stock ... and Snatch is, as you say rather nicely - 'Cockney light' yet I know a few Americans that could not understand it (especially Lock Stock).

I only had some problems with Alan Ford (aka Brick Top). Not that his accent was totally unintelligible - it's because he didn't really open his mouth.

<<Come to think of it, I can't think of a 'proper' cockney film as it goes.>>

I can't either. I think they always try to apply listener-friendly Cockney in order to please Americans and, of course, us Hungarians. :-) The most "Cockney" films I've ever seen were Lock, Stock and the Two Smoking Barrels (I like the pun in the title) and Snatch, even though the characters don't speak real "hard-liner" Cockney.

My favourite part in Snatch is when Bullet Tooth Tonly tells the three rookies rather eloquently to piss off. That is hilarious. By the way, is it Vinnie Jones' real accent? I've never heard him speak apart from that film.

<<Boxing is my biggest love though.>>

Doing or watching?

Talking of Cockneys ....one of the most well known Cockneys has just died - Mike Reid, a Cockney in the true sense of the word - born and bred almost within earshot of Bow Bells in London's East End. He had a voice which sounded like a rusty old chain saw, and immediately recognisable - you just couldn't mistake the voice of Mike Reid. A character from Snatch, but he was best known for playing the part of Frank Butcher in "East Enders", but he started out as a Cockney comedian on the comedy circuits of the UK. It's strange how most of Britain's best known comedians come/came from the larger metropolitan areas - London (Cockney, but exclusively Cockney), Liverpool, Birmingham/Black Country or Glasgow. As one famous comedian says: "If you come from these areas you positively need a sense of humour".

As for "East Enders" - it doesn't have anything like the same appeal back home in Scotland as it does down here in London - seeing as the mythical Walford is located in the East End that's understandable, but perhaps the fact that so many of the storylines are so grim and downbeat may have something to do with it. They seem to be such miserable gits most of the time and always at each other's throats.

Mike Reid's Cockney style was the "dry" type of humour.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2164184.ece

I think you'll find that "Run-arand" was Mike's finest work

Yes Liz that was Vinnie Jones's real accent in Lock Stock and Snatch, he has spent some time in the US and has definately picked up their accent and so has ended up talking like a cockney yank!!!!! It just doesn't sound right!!! The son of Vinnie Jones's character is my mates little brother by the way.

I box to keep fit but am more into watching it now (I did not like getting hurt!!!!) My grandad was one of Sri Lanka's finest fighters and possible their best ever boxing coach - an absolute legend!!!!!!

Yeah Uriel, as Liz said, a 'Pikey' is a slang term for 'Irish traveller' except that x amount of succesive generations have been born in mainland Britain and most reside in 'permanent' caravan parks - so they are neither Irish or travellers!!!!!! Pikey can also be a name for someone that is a bit of a 'skinflint' or a 'tight wad' or a 'scrooge' or someone that is a little 'strapped for cash' or....you get the idea.

Uriel, I live near to one of the biggest Pikey caravan parks in the country. These gits literally decided that they liked the look of a farmers field (POOR BLOKE!!!!) and decided to set up camp (completely destroying much of this man's property in the process). They have brought down local property values, crime has gone up (I witness theft on a daily basis (almost)) they get free medical treatment and their children get 'free coaches' to school (while my little sister has to walk) amongst other 'freebies' - all 'paid' by the 'taxpayer' (they don't pay tax you see). Most pikeys travel the country setting up camp on land that does not belong to them, they stay until it has been decimated and then off they go to obliterate somewhere else. Oh Uriel, you have no idea how horrible they are!!! (I'm sure there are a couple of 'good un's amongst the bunch though!!!) It beggars belief what goes on in this ridiculously PC country!!!! As the character in Snatch says "I HATE PIKEYS"!!!!!!

<<Yes Liz that was Vinnie Jones's real accent in Lock Stock and Snatch, he has spent some time in the US and has definately picked up their accent and so has ended up talking like a cockney yank!!!!! It just doesn't sound right!!!>>

That was my impression, too, but I didn't know it was because he spent some time in the States. There was something fishy about his accent for sure!

<<I box to keep fit but am more into watching it now (I did not like getting hurt!!!!) My grandad was one of Sri Lanka's finest fighters and possible their best ever boxing coach - an absolute legend!!!!!!>>

Pikeys bevare of Pub Lunch and his grandad. :-)

<<Yeah Uriel, as Liz said, a 'Pikey' is a slang term for 'Irish traveller' except that x amount of succesive generations have been born in mainland Britain and most reside in 'permanent' caravan parks - so they are neither Irish or travellers!!!!!!>>

...and neither Gypsies. Some of them are whiter than me. However, I tend to call Gypsies "my relatives". Once I was walking down the street and Gypsy woman shouted at my from the other side of the street: "Happy Anniversary!" I didn't know what she was getting at. Next day we were in town with my mum and saw lots of Gypsies sitting everywhere - in pub gardens, cafés, on banks - everywhere. I ask my mum what it was and she told me that Gypsies were having a celebration or some kind of anniversary. At that very moment I realised that the woman had me down for a Gypsy. LOL! And I know why. I was wearing a long skirt and a pony tail (aka council house facelift :-)) and I was limping a bit because I'm not used to high or stiletto heels and I was knackered, too (I had to walk a lot in those bloody high heels). The mere fact of having these features qualifies you as a Gypsy since looking like that is considered quintessentially Gypsy over here - not to mention that my skin colour isn't lily white. What's more, this hairstyle (i.e. council house facelift) represents your married status (so hands off!) if you are a Gypsy woman, which I'm not for aught I know.
(Sorry for boring you to death with my little anecdotes and having a documented tendency to get off-topic soon.)

<<Uriel, I live near to one of the biggest Pikey caravan parks in the country. These gits literally decided that they liked the look of a farmers field (POOR BLOKE!!!!) and decided to set up camp (completely destroying much of this man's property in the process). They have brought down local property values, crime has gone up (I witness theft on a daily basis (almost)) they get free medical treatment and their children get 'free coaches' to school (while my little sister has to walk) amongst other 'freebies' - all 'paid' by the 'taxpayer' (they don't pay tax you see). Most pikeys travel the country setting up camp on land that does not belong to them, they stay until it has been decimated and then off they go to obliterate somewhere else. Oh Uriel, you have no idea how horrible they are!!! (I'm sure there are a couple of 'good un's amongst the bunch though!!!) It beggars belief what goes on in this ridiculously PC country!!!! As the character in Snatch says "I HATE PIKEYS"!!!!!!>>

I know the feeling. We have the travelling types and the Plaza-dwellers, and some decent one of course. Sadly enough, the latter consist the minority.

<<and Gypsy woman shouted at my>> a Gypsy woman shouted at me
<<we were in town with my mum>> I was in town with my mum
<<I ask my mum>> I asked my mum

<<the latter consists the minority>> the minority consists of...

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Guiness typo-record attempt

Ha ha - Council facelift!!!! Sadly living In Basildon I know only too well what you mean Liz!!! You must have spent some time In England to pick that one up!!!!!

Liz, a good 'cockney film' with some 'proper' cockney accents is'Sexy Beast'!!! Ray Winstone is a 'proper' cockney but as good as the film is, watching the quintessentially 'English' Ben Kingsley play a Cockney hardman nutter is absolutely priceless.

As far as getting back to the topic is concerned, how comes no-one has mentioned possibly the world' greatest actor - Daniel Day Lewis?? He surely does an American accent as good as any Briton?? 'The Last of the Mohicans, 'The Age of Innocence', 'The Crucible' and 'The Gangs of New York'. Actually, most of those films are set in times gone by and so those accents that he did may not be around any more. Ok maybe not Daniel Day Lewis then.

I've seen "Last of the Mohicans", but it was a long time ago and I don't remember what he sounded like.

Yesterday I saw "Hot Fuzz". Very funny! No idea where it's set, but the townspeople were very rhotic. Still didn't make them sound American, though (not that they were trying to) -- they just sounded like English people who knew how to say their R's correctly! ;P But "yarp" -- WTF is that?!!!

By the way, they are remaking the old western "3:10 to Yuma" and it will star Christian Bale and Russell Crowe as -- you guessed it -- Americans. Cowboys, even. Russell Crowe does a hell of an American accent, despite being Australian, by the way. Except in "Mystery, Alaska", where he sounded sort of odd -- Canadian, I guess. I guess he thought maybe Alaskans, being close to Canada, would sound do the Canuck "abewt" thing. In my experience, they don't. At least not the Alaskans I've heard. 'Course, Alaskans are often not actually FROM Alaska....born and bred, I mean.

<<Ha ha - Council facelift!!!! Sadly living In Basildon I know only too well what you mean Liz!!! You must have spent some time In England to pick that one up!!!!!>>

Haha. It reminds me of an old joke:

__Two 5-year-old girls are having a chat:___

A: Is your pony tail too tight?
B: No, I'm Chinese.

The above mentioned hairstyle isn't associated with chavs/scallies/neds over here (we have them though - but we have other names for them) - it's pretty normal if you are too lazy to wash your hair! However, you won't find too many women who admit that. :-)

Basildon must be a "good" place then - I've never been there. And I spent time in England before the reign of chavvy kings and queens (instead of pearly - LOL!).

<<Liz, a good 'cockney film' with some 'proper' cockney accents is'Sexy Beast'!!! Ray Winstone is a 'proper' cockney but as good as the film is, watching the quintessentially 'English' Ben Kingsley play a Cockney hardman nutter is absolutely priceless.>>

Ben Kingsley as a Cockney geezer??? It must be the world's first. Unfortunately, I've never seen the film yet.

<<I've seen "Last of the Mohicans", but it was a long time ago and I don't remember what he sounded like.>>

I don't know about the accents, but in my opinion, the film itself was crap. I'm sure they haven't read the book. Even if they did, it must have been the simplified version for EFL learners. I think it might be a good idea if you change the original plot in some ways, but watching that film, I certainly got the feeling that they had absolutely no idea what it is all about.