Chicago vs San Francisco???

Axel   Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:52 am GMT
Some say San Francisco is more "European minded" than any other cities in the States. More over, it is near the Pacific. It depends on what you are searching for.
About the accent, I have no idea ;-)
Good luck.
Milton   Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:34 pm GMT
''Some say San Francisco is more "European minded" than any other cities in the States''

yes, SF and Boston ;)
Skippy   Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:15 am GMT
lol k, let's keep in mind that "European minded" (whatever that means) does not necessarily mean better... Though, in the minds of San Fransiscans, that is probably the case... I kid, I kid, kinda... :-D
guest   Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:10 am GMT
"yes, SF and Boston ;)"

Heh, I've some relatives from south Boston. "European minded" (whatever that is supposed to mean) is probably the last term I'd use to describe them.
Uriel   Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:02 am GMT
San Francisco is a wonderful city -- I spent a few years in the Bay Area, and it's both beautiful and full of interesting things to do and see -- and it has a great vibe. Can't say much about Chicago, because the only time I've ever spent there was changing planes at Chicago-O'Hare. And watching Ferris Bueller's Day Off.

European-minded? Didn't strike me as that way, but I'm not European, so what do I know.

SF has a pretty neutral accent -- remember, Valspeak started way down in the San Fernando Valley, outside LA -- northern California is practically a different state.
Damian in London SW15   Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:54 am GMT
I'm an outsider here so what do I know that's of any practical use on this particular topic? I've never been to the USA itself let alone either of these two cities. Rather than toss a coin as to which of the cities I would visit (if I was restricted to just one visit only) I would prefer a choice - surprise! surprise! - no rpizes for guessing - it would be the city by the bay, the one with a golden gate bridge, cool little trams that run up and down those steep streets and perpetual sunshine (except when those famous fogs roll in from the bay).

As a European myself, maybe the term "European minded" would most likely mean, in my European mind, a decidedly open minded attitude to life in general, especially when it comes to things like a cosmopolitan environment, a ready acceptance and tolerance of alternative lifestyles.

Moreover, dare I say it in an American context knowing that this word is very much seen as a negative one in many other parts of the USA and has a tendency to raise hackles - liberal. It's in a blue state, right? That would be good enough for most Europeans.

I believe that SF is pretty much a diverse city culturally, and has a social scene which probably replicates that of European cities in many ways, as well as being aesthetically pleasing (from what I've seen of it from afar) out there on the shores of the great Pacific. And it's climate is very much more similar to many cities in Europe than is Chicago where your very sould can freeze up in winter. Weatherwise SF is much more European - well, Mediterranean southern Europe anyway.

I may be well off beam on all this but somehow I dinnae think so.

I've no idea at all if there is such a thing as a distinctive San Francisco accent? - maybe it's too cosmo for that to happen? Now you're probably going to tell me it's Gen-Am or something - or mid-Cal or West Coast or whatever........
Guest   Sun Aug 19, 2007 12:03 pm GMT
I believe that Native Korean doesn't care much about "European-mindedness" of any city. Maybe he's interested in "Korean-mindedness".
Nice one Damian btw
guest   Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:53 pm GMT
Chicago can be cold yes, but it is in a 'blue state' as well. Yes, some Chicagoans have a distinct accent, but then again so do some new yorkers and some Bostonians. I think both cities are lovely (Chicago and San Fran) in their own ways and the visitor would do well to visit both.
Skippy   Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:42 pm GMT
I'm just gonna say it... Don't go to either city...

If you want a fun city with stuff to do and friendly, open-minded people go to San Diego. If you want to experience what a typical American city is like, San Fransisco is not the place to go, nor is New York City... Chicago is more like a typical American city, as is any metropolitan area in the south (Dallas, Memphis, Atlanta, Orlando, etc.). Maybe even Washington, D.C., but this whole stigma that San Fransisco being a "European-minded" city makes it somehow better or more tolerant than other places is very closed minded, and shows a lack of understanding both of those other places and American culture in general.

Yeah, I'm getting preachy... Sorry. Chicago would still be better than San Fransisco.
Guest   Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:59 pm GMT
Dallas is boring as hell.
Skippy   Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:27 pm GMT
No, it's not. If you've done all there is to do and seen all there is to see, then go to Austin.
Guest   Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:39 pm GMT
I have seen florida, Dallas, Houston.....................all of them are boring!
Uriel   Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:10 pm GMT
California IS a "blue" state -- with a "red" governor. Which makes it a lot like most other putatively "red" or "blue" states -- a mishmash. Which I think is really best. It gives people perspective.

As for "European", I've always associated that adjective more with the look than the feel. But I suppose it's just as appropriate to look at it the other way. And I've never thought of it as a "stigma", just a valid comparison -- you might be being a little oversensitive, Skip.

As for Native Korean not giving two hoots about its "Europeanness" anyway, well, he/she will be likely to note that west coast cities generally have a more Asian flair than interior cities -- although Chicago is big enough that I bet you could kind a little something for every taste there. But it's more known for its Eastern European immigrants.

No, SF's not a "typical" US city, but I find that the atypical ones are often the most fun. I like it when a city has its own special character. San Francisco, New York, Savannah -- that's what makes them special. Austin is supposed to be like that, too -- like it's not even in Texas (although I have never been there, everyone I know who has raves about it).

No doubt most countries have some landmark city that every outsider always talks about but the locals roll their eyes at....and usually it's the bigger ones that are least representative of their country's "ordinary" culture or feel.
Skippy   Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:48 pm GMT
K, yeah, I'm being overly sensitive. Sorry.

I'd still avoid San Fransisco... lol
Goretex   Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:35 am GMT
"""Moreover, dare I say it in an American context knowing that this word is very much seen as a negative one in many other parts of the USA and has a tendency to raise hackles - liberal. It's in a blue state, right? That would be good enough for most Europeans."""

I live in Chicago and Illinois is also a blue state. Yes we do have a somewhat distinct accent, but it is closer to general american than, say new york, boston, or the south. Instead of saying "this, that, there" we say "dis, dat, dere" Just small things like that.