What exactly is the nasal sound?

nicolas   Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:42 pm GMT
Ok Greg, je pensais que tu n'avais pas compris. En totucas, je note que Mallorqui semble être d'accord avec moi.
Guest   Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:35 am GMT
**Brazilian Portuguese has 6 nasal vowels: ã, e~, i~, õ, u~, j~
(j~ is a semivowel/semiconsonant, represented in writing by NH and M or N /as in tenho, tem, parabéns/, ''nem um'' and ''nenhum'' are normally pronounced in the same way /ne~j~ u~/)**


Portuguese only has two nasal vowels, "ã" and "õ".
In those cases the nasal sound is on the NH, M or N, not on the vowels. "e", "i" and "u" are never nasal !
Guest   Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:33 am GMT
yeah, it says "Nasal vowels can be indicated in writing with a tilde or (when not followed by another vowel) by writing a silent m or n next to the vowel itself."
but again, the nasal is not on the vowels on those cases, but on the other letters; the vowel itself doesn't change its sound. It's a nasal sound, not a nasal vowel.

I'm sorry but I don't agree with what wikipedia says on this, that's the way I learned in school and it makes sense to me.
Guest   Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:58 am GMT
Letters have nothing to do with it? They're the ones creating the nasal sound... because they're together the consonants m/ n and such are spoken differently...

By that logic, the word "compõem" would present 3 nasal vowels. That's insane!

But hey, that's just my point of view.
There's probably no agreement on this.
greg   Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:26 am GMT
Josh Lalonde à "Guest" : « [...] listen to the difference between 'saint' [sE~] and 'Seine' [sEn] ».

Oui, cette différence est cruciale.

/bɔ̃/ = /bÕ/ = <bon> ≠ /bɔn/ = /bOn/ = <bonne>
/ɔ̃/ = /Õ/ = <on> ≠ /ɔm/ = /Om/ = <homme>

/lɑ̃/ = /lÃ/ = <lent> ≠ /lan/ = <l'âne>
/dɑ̃/ = /dÃ/ = <dans> ≠ /dam/ = <dame>

/pɛ̃/ = /pE~/ = <pain> ≠ /pɛn/ = /pEn/ = <peine>
/lɛ̃/ = /lE~/ = <lin> ≠ /lɛm/ = /lEm/ = <lemme>

/ʒœ̃/ = /Z9~/ = <jeun> ≠ /ʒœn/ = /Z9n/ = <jeune>
/œ̃/ = /9~/ = <un> ≠ /œm/ = /9m/ = <hum>
Guest   Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:42 pm GMT
Thanks for the examples!^^

Yes, I understand the difference. I was just complaining about how the category is described because for me "a" and "o" are the only nasal vowels, but I'm probably over rationalizing this and I may be wrong.