Personal view of shall and will pairs.

MollyB   Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:49 pm GMT
Fellow poster, any difference in meaning in each pair, for you, personally?

He shall become our next king.
He will become our next king.

Shall I break your arms?
Will I break your arms?

I shall never forget my roots.
I will never forget my roots.

Man shall explore the distant regions of the universe.
Man will explore the distant regions of the universe.

We shall overcome
We will overcome.
Skippy   Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:10 pm GMT
"Shall" is mostly a formal word that you may read, but isn't used all that often in every day speech. It is important to note, however, that it can only be used in the first person. So "He shall become our next king" is incorrect but "we shall overcome" is fine.

As much as the first person rule sounds too specific for an English verb, it does sound odd to a native speaker to hear someone say "man shall..."
MollyB   Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:08 pm GMT
<<"Shall" is mostly a formal word that you may read, but isn't used all that often in every day speech. It is important to note, however, that it can only be used in the first person. So "He shall become our next king" is incorrect but "we shall overcome" is fine.

As much as the first person rule sounds too specific for an English verb, it does sound odd to a native speaker to hear someone say "man shall...">>

Skippy, I asked for your PERSONAL understanding of each of those pairs. I didn't ask for a traditional grammar lesson.
Guest   Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:37 pm GMT
Josh

Don't you use it in questions, such as 'Shall I come with you?' or would you say 'Should I come with you?'?
Skippy   Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:48 pm GMT
(1) He will
(2) Shall I
(3) I shall
(4) Man will
(5) We shall
Milton   Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:50 pm GMT
Today, Shall is a briticism found only in legalese.
Guest   Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:10 pm GMT
>>No, I don't. I could say your second example, but I would probably say "Do you want me to come with you?"<<

Is that the case in all of the US? What about Canada? I'm sure I've heard it used on US TV, but of course could be mistaken.
M56   Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:59 pm GMT
<<Today, Shall is a briticism found only in legalese.>>

God save us from armchair "experts".

"Shall" in the British National Corpus (BNC) Usage at the latter part of the 20th century.)

REGISTER (Results per one million words.)

SPOKEN-2,735

FICTION-4,594

NEWS-432

ACADEMIC-4,101

NONFIC MISC-2,395

OTHER MISC-5,557
MollyB   Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:00 pm GMT
<<Fellow poster, any difference in meaning in each pair, for you, personally? >>

Is anyone able to anser the question?

It's above and here:

Fellow poster, any difference in meaning in each pair, for you, personally?
Guest   Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:01 pm GMT
<<I'm Canadian. I don't know about all the US, but 'shall' strikes me as a Briticism. >>

What on earth is a Briticism? Do you mean Britishism?
Skippy   Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:15 am GMT
In the first and fourth pairs, "shall" does not make sense. It wouldn't work and would be viewed as ungrammatical... Is that what you're asking?
Guest   Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:32 am GMT
There's no room for shall with GONNA (going to) and WILL around.
Both can be used to express futurity, willingness and/or intention.
MollyB   Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:12 pm GMT
<<<In the first and fourth pairs, "shall" does not make sense. It wouldn't work and would be viewed as ungrammatical... Is that what you're asking? >>

Ungrammatical? How?
Divvy   Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:13 pm GMT
<<There's no room for shall with GONNA (going to) and WILL around.
Both can be used to express futurity, willingness and/or intention. >>

I have no room for GONNA, so I guess I have room for "shall".
Guest   Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:25 pm GMT
I'm under 50, reside in the US, and I use "shall".

I do not use it necessarily to mean "will", but in circumstances like "Shall we leave now?" "What shall we do?" (fanciful tone)

Otherwise, I use "shall" with a slight connotation of "must be"/"will have to be", in a sense like "It shall happen" (intensive and certain; forceful; purposeful intent) opposed to "It will happen/it's gonna happen" (casual, passive, voluntary or permissive).

"It shall happen" to me can also mean "It should happen" when used with a slightly different tone of voice.

I don't think it's dead or dying, but use of "shall" is changing, evolving...

You might be surprised how often you use it without noticing it. Again, I don't think most people outside of British influence use it to indicate "will/going to"