How to pronounce the LL letter.

Spanyol   Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:16 pm GMT
<< Even the Valencian speakers don't pronounce LL like Valencian LL ---> not true at all, I met many Valencians which keep LL when speaking Spanish. Probably they didn't speak Valencian.
In Spain, TVE and Radio Nacional use RAE Spanish and pronouncing LL is a must. >>

I just watched TVE Internacional for about ten minutes now, and this are the results of my observation:

The words with LL that came up:
llevar (2 times)
llegar (2 times)
calle
ellos (2 times)
pantalla
callarse
aquello
ramillete

In all of those cases, only twice was LL pronounced like Valencian LL. Namely once in "calle", and once in "ellos", where it sounded more like "elyos".
So basically only in one occurrence was the LL pronounced "properly".

I'm not saying that the LL pronunciation is bad, and for some time I pronounced it like in Valencian when I was speaking Spanish, but the more I spent time with Spanish speakers and talking about things other than phonetics, it got "washed away". =)
Guest   Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:11 pm GMT
LL sounds to elevated, I would reserve it for more formal situations rather than just talking to friends. RAE recommends the classy pronounciation to professionals working in TV and Radio broadcasting.
Guest   Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:37 pm GMT
"Sun King" used to rule in France not in Spain
Guest   Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:39 pm GMT
Sun King is a Japanese King, right?
Guest   Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:50 pm GMT
As far as I know they have an Imperor in Japan
Guest   Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:51 pm GMT
Japan is not an Empire, it comprises only the country of Japan.
Spanyol   Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:06 pm GMT
<< RAE recommends the classy pronounciation to professionals working in TV and Radio broadcasting. >>

Well, TVE Internacional is a form of formal broadcasting, and even there it's quite rare to pronounce LL like in Valencian.
Guest   Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:14 pm GMT
For some reason some professionals , mybe bad ones, don't follow that directive of the RAE, but appart from TVE Internacional I hear other channels and I can listen to people pronouncing the formal LL. Appart from this, everybody in Northern Spain prnounce the traditional LL in all kinds of situations. So it is not oudated.
Guest   Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:25 pm GMT
Spanish is abandoning that sound so you just have to live with it
Guest   Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:32 pm GMT
Cultured people will always pronounce it. It is a sign of distinction.
Spanyol   Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:38 pm GMT
<< appart from TVE Internacional I hear other channels and I can listen to people pronouncing the formal LL. Appart from this, everybody in Northern Spain prnounce the traditional LL in all kinds of situations. >>

I got access to many channels from Northern Spain.
I'll do the same observation with them.

I personally know only two persons from Castilla-León, and none of them pronounces LL like in Valencian.

But like I said, I'll watch some channels from Northern Spain and I'll post my report.
Guest   Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:40 pm GMT
Maybe the Valencian LL is not that similar to the Castilian LL, but in Northern Spain it is heavily pronounced, at least in Burgos, Valladolid, Palencia and La Rioja. Avila on the other hand is yeista. I know that even there are isolated zones in Southern Spain which are not yeista, despite surrounding areas are so.
furrykef   Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:39 pm GMT
<< Japan is not an Empire, it comprises only the country of Japan. >>

That may be true, but the Emperor of Japan is still called an emperor, and they do still have an emperor today, named Akihito. Like many rulers of developed countries, he's mostly a figurehead and has limited power. He is also the only ruler in the world today with the title of Emperor. The actual Japanese word for his title is 天皇 tennō, literally meaning something like "heavenly sovereign".

- Kef
Rodrigo   Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:09 pm GMT
In TVE I've heard a mixture, mostly the older generation does not have yeísmo, but the man I heard didn't pronounce the B in observar, so I cannot say they speak perfect RAE Spanish. In Argentina most people have yeísmo because they Y with a different sound, similar to a French J or an English Sh. Curiously I have an Argentinian friend and when he tried to mimic our accent he did pronounce Ll though the younger generation is yeísta and this has happened for a while. For example my dad pronounces Ll but my mom doesn't, I have met many families where parents are not yeístas but the children are. The Alcaldía Mayor of Bogotá even produced some ads where yeísmo is needed to understand the pun, and the vast amounts of spelling mistakes, even on Cien Años de Soledad special edition, shows this phenomenom is unstoppable.
Guest   Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:14 pm GMT
It would be stoppable if there was a better education system in South America so the children learn to pronounce Spanish properly.