COCKNEY SOUNDS AMERICAN!!!

>><<Actually, there is another major reason that I tend to prefer such extremely informal forms: I find I can just generally speak *far* faster and with far less effort in them, whereas speaking in more "clear" formal forms often is far slower, requires more effort, and is more tiring when speaking for any real period of time, for me. When I don't have to think about "clearly" enunciating everything, using rules that are at least to some degree "learned" and thus requiring actual thought at some level, speaking as a whole is much easier and more fluid, at least for me.>>

Just that's what I mean, it's not about spoiling the language just to save some time when talking. Honestly, I think that the way you speak (even with an accent or not) tells a lot about you, about your culture and your educational background. Eg:<<

I'm not spoiling anything. I'm just speaking how I would normally speak, were there to be no influence of the literary language and no attempting to be more formal than necessary for its own sake, except when one specifically desires to be formal speech-wise, to deliberately express politeness or force. You somehow seem to think that somehow maintaining artificial "correct" forms for their own sake is somehow good, and that *not* doing so, or simply neglecting to even knowledge such, by speaking how one would speak at home everywhere, except when specific formality is desired, is "spoiling the language".

(I must note that it is really nice that here in the US there is nothing analogous to RP, and furthermore that ideas of "correctness" seem to be far, far less strong here than in the UK, where they appear to tied to notions of social class and "educatedness", and seem to be generally internalized by the population as a whole, to the point that it seems like a good many in the UK seem to somehow still few the US dialect situation through such a lens, despite such a lens not truly applying to the US dialect situation at all.)

>>What do you think of a bloke speaking like this:

Yo man, whazzup? hey, it's pretty cold man, I gonna wear som'in. I ain't got no choice!!! You betta do da same, dude!!<<

Well, for me that is, that's plain unfamiliar to me personally, in particular with respect to the wording and usage in question, even though I definitely recognize the forms themselves. (That *definitely* is not like the informal speech I am normally used to.) Of course, then, I often have trouble understanding more, well, progressive forms of AAVE, due to having *very* little everyday contact with it (which is sort of surprising considering I come from a metro area with a quite high black population, but then, really isn't, considering that said black population is practically confined within inner city areas, and much of the rest of Wisconsin, except the UW Madison campus area in Madison, has been called "snow white" by some).

>>ANd what about this?

Hey, Hello. How are you? It's very cold, huh? I'm going to wear something. I have no choice! and You should do the same!<<

With the general intonation, prosody, and enunciation that I just imagine from reading this, as well as the general usage (the "huh?" almost makes me think like such is meant to really be "innit?", which isn't used here at all), this seems almost as unfamiliar, were it to actually be spoken, as your other example, primarily due to seeming like it'd in practice be more formal than what I am normally used to in such contexts.

>>Is there an important difference of time when speaking? maybe just 1 or 2 seconds, and if you want to you can always speak quickly and that's it. Time is not the problem, and it's not a reason to spoil the language either.<<

As for the time thing, it's not like one or two seconds (per what exactly?), it's more like between a factor of two and a factor of three overall.

>>And about effort, well... no coments.<<

Well, effort is actually probably the bigger factor here than speed, for me at least. Speaking formally for me for any real period of time is tiring, because I have to constantly actually think about *how* I say things, rather than just *what* I say. Also, enunciation is just simply far easier when one does not have to think about enunciating everything "correctly", that is, like "correct" formal speech than how one would normally pronounce things, say, at home.

>>And talking about the main topic here. I keep my words "COCKNEY SOUNDS SORT OF AMERICAN TO ME" even if You say that now American accent is like cockney, I'm not sure, I must be crazy. And I prefer "Estuary English" (pronounced esCHU@rI, well kind of, hehehe). Even if they say that EE is a bastardized version of cockney.<<

I myself'd pronounce that as /"EstSueri/ -> ["E.StSuwe.r\i] myself. I just love the [StS] affricate present in my dialect (which seems to not be present in most NAE dialects).

Well, [StS] isn't an affricate per se, actually. It's more like a fricative-affricate cluster. But anyways, it is found quite commonly here, as /st/ palatalizes as such here, and /tS/ will assimilate a following /s/ into [S] here as well.

**we've never invaded Scotland....Just give us some time; we're a little busy right now. But we'll pencil 'em in for 2078...and then we'll remember EXACTLY where it is!**

Basically....just head out in an east north easterly direction for about three thousand miles then take third turning on the right past the Pig and Thistle pub on St Kilda...then straight on to the old lighthouse at Muckle Flugga then it's sharp left till you come to the eighth roundabout on the Tobermory road..proceed for about twenty miles and there you are..right in front of you..you can't miss it....SCOTLAND! We'll be waiting for you.....pikestaffs and dirks at the ready. Please don't arrive at tea time though....or at opening time.

**In all the books I've read about England, it says that there is a 4 o'clock tea**

Wrong!...according to Rupert Brooke down in Grantchester it's over an hour earlier: "Stops the clock at ten to three? And is there honey still for tea?"

<<I myself'd pronounce that as /"EstSueri/ -> ["E.StSuwe.r\i] myself. I just love the [StS] affricate present in my dialect (which seems to not be present in most NAE dialects).>>

I believe it's ["EStMEr\i] or ["EStSMEr\i] for me, which would be a rare case of [StS] for me. However, I think the former seems more natural for me to say. Anyway, it's not a word I say that often so I'm not exactly sure.

<<In all the books I've read about England, it says that there is a 4 o'clock tea>>

Have you read any books about England written later than about 1930?? 4 o'clock tea is as dead as a dodo.

<<I believe it's ["EStMEr\i] or ["EStSMEr\i] for me, which would be a rare case of [StS] for me. However, I think the former seems more natural for me to say. Anyway, it's not a word I say that often so I'm not exactly sure.>>

I pronounce it [EstSuEr\i]. The /stS/-->[StS] phenomenon doesn't occur in my dialect. Also, I never have yod deletion in "estuary".

Basically....just head out in an east north easterly direction for about three thousand miles then take third turning on the right past the Pig and Thistle pub on St Kilda...then straight on to the old lighthouse at Muckle Flugga then it's sharp left till you come to the eighth roundabout on the Tobermory road..proceed for about twenty miles and there you are..right in front of you..you can't miss it....SCOTLAND! We'll be waiting for you.....pikestaffs and dirks at the ready. Please don't arrive at tea time though....or at opening time.

I don't know -- if we have to deal with those roundabouts we might just give up --logistical nightmare, you know: can't get a tank through 'em, can never remember whose turn is which -- and then there's the weather -- and those awful bagpipes -- and pikestaffs? You'll be assaulting us with fish on a stick? Can't handle that! Maybe it's better if we DON'T know where you are....

No idea what you guys are X-Sampaing about, but I say ESS-chew-ary, When I say it at all. (I so rarely have occasion to talk about river features, and no real opinions on the accent.)

ESS-chew-ary,

That'd most likely be something like ["EstSuEr\i] for you, then, just in case you wanted to see it in X-SAMPA :)

Thank you, Kirk. :)

Hello, there. I wish I could speak with a Cockney accent. That would be COOL.

Mysha, you're a fucking idiot!!

Hugo Weaving has of course spent some time in the US, but not a lot. Don't forget that quite a few films and TV series set in America are actually made in Australia.

While an Australian accent seems impossible for both NA and UK actors - who often mix in far more Cockney and Irish than is actually present, Australian actors for decades have been playing British and American characters quite successfully; Kidman, Blanchett, Crowe, Weaving and a host of others less well-known, such as LaPaglia, McMahon etc., while Gibson, with his varied upbringing and multiple nationality of course had no difficulty earlier, but would now probably struggle to eliminate his rhoticism in order to sound Australian. Damian may have some comment on how well he played a Scot.

<<some comment on how well he played a Scot.>>

I would say his Scottish accent was about as authentic as the "Scottish" landscape (Ireland) and the "Scottish" troops (Irish). And why were the English nobility speaking English rather than the bastardized French that they actually spoke at that time.