Chinese Tones

Guest   Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:20 am GMT
How difficult is it for a non-native to master the tones of Chinese? If you don't get them right, will you just sound like you're speaking gibberish or will you still be understood somewhat?
L'italofilo   Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:15 am GMT
Chinese (Mandarin) contains 4 main tones: 阴平(first tone)、阳平(second tone)、上声(third tone)、去声(fourth tone)。Speaking gibberish is not helpful for making people understand what you said.
Guest   Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:18 am GMT
Why italofilo? it should be ITALIOFILO
L'italofilo   Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:26 am GMT
Italofilo(It)=Italophile(En)

Italiofilo=???
Xie   Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:16 pm GMT
You've just got to listen an immense lot to get used to it. When I learn non-tonal languages, I do have to mimic the intonations all the time. They just happen not to be meaning-contrasting stuff as the "tones", but I would sound as funny as those who don't master tones if I don't, for example, change a bit of my tone when asking questions or expressing surprise.

Chinese, like all those funny languages with funny spelling exceptions, compel you to listen a lot to get things right. That's good, because you can't speak well without listening well.
Guest   Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:22 pm GMT
Italophile= italiofilo
Xie   Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:23 pm GMT
I also guess that "accents" would be most probably a result of 1) changing intonations too frequently, whereas intonations of Chinese are quite boring* and 2) you haven't got used to the high frequency of using high pitches.

*Because tones rule everything. When I speak foreign, I feel much better because I'm not bound by "tones" to express anything. For me, intonation is almost the exact opposite of tones. So, if I still had a typical Chinese accent, and if I twisted it a bit, I would already sound foreign for untrained Chinese ears. I still know little, but I've been mistaken repeatedly as someone who has been abroad.

High pitches: it also seems that "foreigners" don't speak as high-pitched as I do, for example (even for females, as I observed). That's quite natural, because the Chinese are one the most prominent groups who are especially used to using a high pitch every day, while most others do not. If I don't do so, I would sound funny to other natives. Yet, I don't think it's impossible to "regain" this high pitch after puberty (no, I don't know anything scientific about this). Again, you just have to mimic a lot.
Guest   Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:55 pm GMT
Which languages have tones, apart from Chinese?
K. T.   Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:00 am GMT
Listening to tones is helpful in many languages. If you can hear where the pitch is raised, then your speech will sound more natural. I've read some ridiculous things about Japanese, but the truth is Japanese is not some monotone language, there are definite pitches. Once I figured this out and started applying this to other languages, I started noticing patterns. That's why I think that a good musical ear and a good memory are important for learning languages.
K. T.   Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:03 am GMT
"you can't speak well without listening well."-Xie

Truth.
Guest   Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:59 pm GMT
What I've often wondered about tonal languages is how one can understand the exact meaning of words in a song when they're sung, since the tones would have to follow the music rather than the meaning. Or does the song have to be written with that in mind? (that would greatly limit the song's expression/choice of word potential in my opinion).
Guest   Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:13 pm GMT
Do English, French, German, Spanish have tones?
furrykef   Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:08 pm GMT
Most major languages don't have tones in the sense of the Chinese languages. What they do have is prosody, where the pitch might rise and fall depending on where you are in the sentence as well as the emphasis. Thai and Vietnamese are also tonal, as are some African, Native American, and Australian Aboriginal languages.

Some languages like Japanese have a "pitch accent", which isn't really like the tones of Chinese, but isn't quite like the stress system of European languages either. For instance, in Japanese, it functions like a stress accent except that pitch is the *only* major distinctive factor; other methods of stress such as making the syllable louder are not used. These languages are not considered tonal languages.

- Kef
JLK   Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:15 pm GMT
Some European languages have pitch accents like Norwegian, Swedish, Serbo-Croatian and a few others.
Guest   Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:28 pm GMT
If you know a lot of vocabulary, then tones are not so important.
The listener, if he or she wants to, will be able to understand you from the context of the sentence or conversation - especially if he/she is relying on you to do something for him/her.