World languages

Guest   Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:38 am GMT
Sigh. JLK, we are discussing "world languages" and Mandarin is certainly one of them. No one expects anyone to learn these languages for short trips abroad.

Someone who travels around the world OFTEN would probably benefit from knowing at least some of the UN languages.

I haven't been to China in a few years, but my spouse tells me it has modernized considerably and that Shanghai "seems" as modern as Tokyo now.
mac   Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:51 am GMT
We hate these threads but we love to post on them.

After English, the only languages that are worldly are the UN languages.

Arabic is questionable because it is a macro-language with many dialects, and the standard form is not spoken as a first language. Chinese is a macro also, but Mandarin is clearly the dominate dialect/language. Chinese is also gradually becoming more popular as a foreign langauge.

Russia still has some international presence put it's influence has fallen. It does have presnce in former Soviet states and is offical in some, but it might be in more trouble if it's population continues to decline and the former states and their students move towards other languges, like English for example.

Of the UN languages, I think English, French, Spanish, and Chinese are in the best position.

The for the rest...

Technically, you could say that Portugese if a world language because of the geographic spread. But seriously, all Portugese REALLY has going for it is Brazil. Of those countries in Africa, I don't think the majority of the people speak Portugese anyway. (Similar with French in some of Africa) And East Timor...sorry but it's tiny and not even a million people live there, so you can't use that to claim of any significant Portugese presence in Asia.

Hindi, Bengali, Indonesian, all have a large amount of speakers but are confined to limited areas, especially Bengali. The presence of English in India doesn't help Hindi either.

I personally respect German for various reasons. It has presence in science and business, but it is now overshadowed by its cousin...English. While having a decent amount of speakers, it is basically confined to Europe.
Guesto   Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:55 am GMT
<< communist China?you must be from the stone-age >>

Well, besides economic reform, China still is a communist country that exerts tight control and restrictions. Although things may gradually get better.
Guest   Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:24 am GMT
<<
Well, besides economic reform, China still is a communist country that exerts tight control and restrictions. Although things may gradually get better.>>

I disagree. China is moving away from communism, so things will definitely get worse.
Guest   Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:48 am GMT
Doesn't matter if China become the world's biggest economy (which indeed will happen) but Chinese will never become the world language, only Spanish could take that title away from English.
mac   Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:34 am GMT
<< only Spanish could take that title away from English >>

Me encanta el espanol. However, I don't see that happening.
Guesto   Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:36 am GMT
<< China is moving away from communism, so things will definitely get worse. >>

Huh? Ok. Whatever you say.
Guest   Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:11 am GMT
What I love about China is the Communist regime. Am I crazy?
Xie   Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:28 am GMT
>>>I think most western travelers would be more comfortable in South Korea or Japan. China is still quite 3rd word/communist*cough*. Anyways, it really doesn't make sense to invest the time in learning an East Asian language like Mandarin for a short trip to Shanghai. Seriously, unless you are relocating there, don't bother.<<<

I always feel insecure until I reach the borders and I see the SAR flag LOL. Nothing is impossible in China, remember. But well, a typical foreign-looking person should be able to live properly (at least, guys, and guys only, you would probably look very strong, and that helps frightening thieves who could KILL, literally).

... no, actually I'm still and really confident in my country, when millions of young natives are sort of begging for Anglophone teachers. This would-be 2nd biggest ESL country welcomes such teachers from everywhere. Many natives have already had too much money to spend...
JLK   Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:36 pm GMT
Sigh. JLK, we are discussing "world languages" and Mandarin is certainly one of them. No one expects anyone to learn these languages for short trips abroad.

Someone who travels around the world OFTEN would probably benefit from knowing at least some of the UN languages.

I haven't been to China in a few years, but my spouse tells me it has modernized considerably and that Shanghai "seems" as modern as Tokyo now.



I don't see Mandarin as a world language. It's essentially limited to one country. That's a regional language, my friends. Besides, China is really a 2nd rate tourist destination if you look what it has to offer. Most of China lies in a very harsh/extreme climate, the ever expanding deserts cause yearly dust storms, the cities are horrendously overpopulated and noisy and the pollution is disgusting. So unless you're fascinated by pieces of pottery from the Ming dynasty, I would generally advise the average western tourist to go elsewhere.
Xie   Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:56 pm GMT
It's commonplace for natives (esp. poor mortals) to rant about their home country and dream of living elsewhere. It's also a common myth and a real habit of mine. But then, rants or complaints aside, if you may call, you'd always find a way if you want to, but an excuse if you don't.

I say my country is full of pollutions, noise and people (overcrowded), which I experience personally and feel disgusted about - which is more convincing than that by most, if not all, posters here, but then there still exists a few reasons you can't deny or even argue about. Despite that my world, my world view and viewpoint must be somewhat different from yours, you should be able to acknowledge some truths about life in general.

By the same token, I couldn't imagine living in a (continental) place where it could be 40C in summer with no air-conditioning, 0C in winter with heavy snow (never seen real snow, literally) and no fresh fish all the year. You must know nothing about where you've never been to, and there's always extremely complicated about a place of such kind which remains appealing or horrible until you live in it.
Guest   Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:33 pm GMT
I saw on CNN yesterday a young woman from Kenya who won 1st place and reward in some sort of a kindaBigBrotherstartyourbusiness show. She noticed the influence of Chinese economy in Africa and started Chinese language school in Kenya. Everybody seemed very entusiastic about Chinese in Africa. Whodathunkit, eh?
Guest   Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:29 pm GMT
Yo no es por malmeter pero puede que el ingles pierda su estatus en favor del chino:
China wants to establish 100 Confucius Institutes around the world to popularize learning Chinese. They are now present in 23 countries, part of plans to have 100 million people studying Chinese worldwide by 2010.
The world in the next few generations is likely to see greater multilingualism and less English-backed bilingualism


Si ya lo dijo mi amigo Napo : Cuando China despierte el mundo temblará.
Oye Xie : ¿Es muy dificil aprender chino?
Guest69   Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:15 pm GMT
If you take into account the UNO languages all of them but English have a lot of weak points:

Perhaps, French and Spanish are the strongest but they are also weak languages in some areas like Asia, for instance.


French is the only one of them that is NOT spoken in a big area by a lot of people. It is the less spoken of the big 6. Nowadays French language is with the big 6 because it WAS an important diplomatic language until 1945. However, it is the second or third most studied World language (it depends on the Government you ask, the French or the Spanish one).


Spanish is spoken in Mexico, second language in USA, Central America, South America, Spain, Andorra, European Union, North and Equatorial Africa, Israel, Philippines. It is very important in some areas, but not too much in other areas, like Asia.


Chinese, Arabic and Russian are important languages in a big area but out of this area are NOT important.


All other languages are NOT important because they are not officially World languages. For instance, if there is an UNO World meeting in Danemark, the President of Germany can NOT speak in German, the same with Italian, Hindi, Portuguese or Japanese.

Sorry, but they have a minor status.
Guest   Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:06 pm GMT
Guest69 , sorry but you're missing one point. English has less native english speakers but has the bigger number of students of all UNO languages. So the strong point of english is that it is nowadays considered a lingua franca because USA leads the world economically,scientifically,militarily,etc ; but China wants to expand Chinese worldwide in spite of being spoken in a restricted area of the world and it is(or will be) leading the world in science,economy,etc. This will mean many people who are now learning english will switch it in favor of Chinese . Maybe at low-speed at the beginning but with good prospects of increasing the number of students worlwide. In Europe(western countries), it is possible that english won't lose its status so quickly but you have to consider this issue at global level in the future.