This cam be dangerous - pronouncing N's

Johnny   Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:45 pm GMT
I always have a lot of trouble with n's.

1)This can be dangerous -> This cam be...
Do n's turn into m's sometimes?If the above example makes sense, do the following make sense too?
2)It's unbelievable -> It's umbelievable

If n's are influenced by what follows, shouldn't they be influenced by other sounds like G or K too?
Mary and Gary -> Mary ən Gary -> Mary əŋ Gary
In Canada -> ɪn Canada -> ɪŋ Canada
Ten cars -> tɛn cars -> tɛŋ cars

I am afraid this is not so simple. I'm afraid the N changes in "can" but not "unbelievable", changes in "and" but not "in" or "ten" or other words.
Can anyone help me understanding more about n's, especially in American English? Thanks.
Johnny   Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:53 pm GMT
<<Mary and Gary -> Mary ən Gary -> Mary əŋ Gary...>>

Sorry, there are probably some problems with symbols (I can't see the IPA symbol that corresponds to /N/ in SAMPA, as in king /kIN/). It was supposed to show something that sounds like:
Mary an Gary -> Mary ang Gary
In Canada -> Ing Canada
Ten Cars -> Teng cars
...where those ng's are /N/ in Sampa.
Travis   Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:06 pm GMT
The symbols came out just fine over here. You probably just a proper Unicode font which can display IPA on your box, such as Arial Unicode MS (even though that has a few flaws in it) or Gentium (from SIL).

As for /n/, in my own dialect at least it acts just like how you describe - it assimilates with respect to place of articulation with any following consonant. The only difference is that it is often lost when it falls in a syllable coda before a fortis obstruent (*especially* /t/, which I normally do not realize [n] before) or semivowel or between vowels (either when the next vowel is unstressed or when /n/ is in a word-final position), where then it is realized solely as nasalization of the preceding vowel. Also, it may be sporadically lost word-finally and before other consonants (such as /v/), especially when it is not specifically stressed, in my dialect.
Johnny   Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:00 pm GMT
I see. I found some material on the net that deals with this problem, and now I know the name... I have trouble with assimilation.

Those websites said "can be" becomes "cam be", "one more" becomes "wom more", etc. But those websites appeared to deal with British English. I am afraid assimilation in those cases only happens in extremely fast speech in most dialects of American English, if it happens at all. Ok, there is often assimilation in perception, so you actually hear something that sound like "cam be" or "wom more", but I am talking about production.

An American once told me not to pronounce "tan go" the same as "tango". Would you say they are pronounced the same? If so, would you say "I live in Canada" is the same as "I living Canada"?

Thanks again.
Uriel   Sun Mar 02, 2008 3:35 am GMT
<<Those websites said "can be" becomes "cam be", "one more" becomes "wom more", etc. But those websites appeared to deal with British English. I am afraid assimilation in those cases only happens in extremely fast speech in most dialects of American English, if it happens at all. Ok, there is often assimilation in perception, so you actually hear something that sound like "cam be" or "wom more", but I am talking about production. >>

This does happen.

<<If so, would you say "I live in Canada" is the same as "I living Canada"?>>

I would personally never have a G sound in there. But there are some Americans who pronounce in as een, and so that might be easily be confused for -ing.
Travis   Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:30 am GMT
>>An American once told me not to pronounce "tan go" the same as "tango". Would you say they are pronounced the same? If so, would you say "I live in Canada" is the same as "I living Canada"?<<

As for "tan go", versus "tango", in the dialect here at least the difference is a matter of the vowel used and stress, not necessarily [n] versus [ŋ]. I myself pronounce "tan go" as either [ˈtʰɛ̯æ̃ːŋʲgoː]/[ˈtʰɛ̞̃ːŋʲgoː], with assimilation, or as [ˈtʰɛ̯æ̃ːnʲgoː]/[ˈtʰɛ̞̃ːnʲgoː], and "tango" as [ˈtʰẽ̞ːŋgoː]. As for "I live in Canada", I will pronounce "in" in it as either [ɨ̃ŋ] or [ɨ̃n].

The matter is that in many English dialects, assimilation of /n/ to velar consonants does not occur as readily as assimilation of /m/ to labial consonants, and is generally optional, unlike assimilation to labial consonants, which is often mandatory. Whether such occurs in not in the case of /n/ assimilating to velar consonants is primarily a matter of stress and register, with less stress and lower register lending itself towards such assimilation occurring more readily, and vice versa.
Geoff_One   Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:08 am GMT
Adapted from Wikipedia:

A cam is a projecting part of a rotating shaft or wheel that contacts (interacts with) a lever at one or more points within its circular path.

For example: A car engine's cam shaft.
Milyon   Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:08 pm GMT
king /kiN/