Now, although I know it's hard. Can we for one conduct a civilised discussion about the ENGLISH language?
This is not to promote Anti-English or Anti-Americanis sentiments. But a thread to compare American-English v British-English.
Americans didn't change the English language just to make it better, a lot has changed in that country over 200 years since it's independence. Immigrants that make up nearly all it's population = change in language.
Languages change over time, British English is changing just as much as American English. Infact their coming closer together than never before.
This is not about what language is best, because both are the same language.
But what words do think are best?
For example
Sidewalk or Pavement
Cellphone or Mobile Phone
Spellings
Curb or Kerb
Gray or Grey
Defense or Defence
Our we going to have civilized debate or a civlised debate or are you just all going to be arseholes or assholes? :)
One Language, two dialects.
I think these are best, though I may not use them:
Sidewalk
Mobile Phone
Curb
Gray
Defense (verb or noun?)
Most differences are the result of Noah Webster's dictionary, and were not in widespread use (if at all) before then.
I think the pety bickering that takes place between the United States, United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, et al., is obscuring the fact that all of our clutures not only come from one seed, but have grown together. Do people not realize that together we are the largest and most influential bloc of countries in the world? I would love to see our peoples, so alike in their ways, come together as equals, and come together as one.
Hi Lee,
I think you've made some good points and I kind of agree with your opinion.
I can tell you are very good in English. However, can you spend a little more time to double check your article for any typo before sending it out ? I guess (I might be wrong) this is a forum mainly for the English learners. Please try to make the readers less confused.
Regards,
Paul
I think American English is more understandable. I find those speakers from Great Britain mumble to much and are very hard to understand. It's really hard to figure out what they are trying to say.
Ernesto, I take it that you are not from Spain? If you were, then you might think British English is easier than American English.
This thread looks like a revival of the one started by Michal Ryszard Wojcik where he wrote
"Let this topic be devoted to discussing the choice between British English or American English. Which version is better to adopt by a learner of English? Perhaps a learner needn't care about being consistent?
"Perhaps there's an alternative to these two varieties of English."
http://www.antimoon.com/forum/2002/7.htm
This topic quickly degenerated into a transatlantic bitch fest but a lot of good points were raised. It is worth keeping in mind that it is all the same language but I can't agree that we are only talking two dialects here. English is spoken in Britain and the USA but you can't ignor all those other places where it is spoken. Even within Britain and the States there are a number of different dialects.
Is there "an alternative to these two varieties of English"? There are so many alternatives both within these two varieties and besides them. To state blindly that there are only two dialects of English is plainly naive.
In my opinion learners should make themselves familiar with all of the different varieties of English but if (s)he is going to be mostly using one or other then (s)he should concentrate mostly on that one. I don't think that arguements over which is best overall are useful at all: it's up to the individual. For more on this see
http://www.antimoon.com/forum/2002/486.htm
Sadly, though, in many ESL texts, audio tapes, schools, teachers, etc. seem to portray the (General) American dialect as standard. This is complete rubbish. There is no standard English. No dialect is better than any other. Those who advocate American English as standard are doing everyone a disservice by pushing a false standard.
What vocabulary, spelling, accent, grammar, etc. do I think is best? My own, of course, but it is only best for me and those living in my country. We use British spelling so I think that it's the best but our vocabulary is a little different. It's a "mobile phone" but it's neither a "pavement" nor a "sidewalk" but a "footpath".
American English evolved naturally on a different continent so they have every right to use their dialect. However I do have a problem with it's being thrust on everyone else especially when you consider that a lot of the differences were deliberate attempts to create a distinct American language. Lee writes "Americans didn't change the English language just to make it better". I don't think that any of their deliberate changes were in any way an improvement they were just the product of nationalistic fervour. However most of the differences between English dialects occured naturally. For what I really think of American spelling see
http://www.antimoon.com/forum/2002/326.htm
but let me just say I'm not too fond of it.
We're probably hoping for too much asking for a civilised debate but J was right, the bickering is petty and it is all the same language.
P.S. Paul, you wrote "However, can you spend a little more time to double check your article for any typo before sending it out ?" you don't need a space before the question mark (just being an arsehole).
Ernesto,
I don't agree with you. American English is easy to understand only because they dominate the media so you're probably more used to it.
While you can enumerate many dialects of English, only two are worth learning, assuming you are learning English to either increase your life chances of participate in the culture. Most English-speakers will speak either American or British English, and those who do not will understand it (if they do not they are not English-speakers).
That depends on what you mean by "worth learning". It also depends on what "culture" you're talking about. If you're intending to live in Newfoundland you'd do well to learn Newfie English.
I say it's worth learning about some of the variety in English but the differences between dialects aren't that great so no matter which one you learn you'll be understood.
The International Labour Organization seems to combine British and American spellings. I wonder if this a deliberate attempt to avoid taking sides.
I agree with Lee in that we should try to keep this a civilized discussion. As an American, naturally I speak American English. As to which one is better to learn, that all depends on where one is going or which particular culture they're interested in. If you're going to America, it would be wise to learn American English. If it's England you're headed for, then study the English from its mother country.
As to which is better, the question is a silly one. Naturally the England is the country of origin, but all languages change over time. The English today do not speak like Chaucer and, although less extreme, my speech is undoubtedly different than that of George Washington. Despite the differences in pronunciation, some spelling, and some everyday vocabulary, English speakers, for the most part, have no trouble understanding one another. The languages remain English because of the pronunciation (despite the differences, there are certain rules) and the rules of grammar. No matter what type of English one studies (although there are differences in vocabulary among the different speakers of English, for example: truck (USA) or lorrie (England), if one masters the grammar, pronunciation, and the vocabulary of which we all share, despite the differences, it should not be a problem to be understood by English speakers wherever you go.
One more thing: although there are differences in the dialects between the English speaking nations, there are also many different regional dialects in the nations themselves.
oops sorry....i meant "lorry" for truck in England....my apologies to the Brits
mjd
Please, if only one thing, don't call us 'Brits'. 'Britons' really is better and does not grate at all. And it is only two more letters. I swear I have never called citizens of the United States of America 'Yanks'.