Are spelling reforms futile?

Jarec   Monday, February 16, 2004, 20:44 GMT
How do the Russians pronounce the word hamburger? We say /h^mbUrger/ with a rolling R.
We pronounce Einstein /^jnSt^jn/.
Steve   Monday, February 16, 2004, 20:47 GMT
The correct ways to pronounce ''hamburger'' and ''einstein'' are [h@mbe:rg..r] and [ainstain].
VHS   Monday, February 16, 2004, 21:22 GMT
They want to buy the tapes by five o'clock and when they do, they will say by to the person in the store and wonder what they're bill will cost. Where is the warehouse for the clothes I wear. Why are four for them but three for them. Everybody is told to wear a seatbelt everytime they get in the car. They spell English as if the first sound was [e] but it's not. They got caught in the conveniance store stealing four bottles of soda and one water without paying anything. The police arrested them.

Made up respelling of it.

Thay wunt too bie thu tapes bie five o'klok and wen thay doo, thay wil say bie too the pursun in the stor and wunder wut therr bil wil kost. Ware is the warehouse for the kloez I ware. Wie ar therr for for them but three for them. Evreebuddy is toald too ware a seetbelt evreetime thay get in the kar. Thay spel Inglish az if the furst sound wuz [e] but it's not. Thay got kot in the kunveenyunse stor steeling for bottulz uv soduh and wun woter without paying eenything. The pulees urrestid them.
Dwayne   Monday, February 16, 2004, 21:26 GMT
>>>How do the Russians pronounce the word hamburger?<<<
/g^mburger/ or /g@mburger/ with a rolling R (both sounds /^/ and /@/ are considered to be the same in Russian)
Einstein as /einStein/

>>>[ainstain]<<<
Yes, it is how English speakers pronounce it, but his surname is German (it literally means "one stone") and accordingly German rules it should be pronounced as /ainStain/
Steve   Monday, February 16, 2004, 21:30 GMT
/g^mburger/ or /g@mburger/. The correct way to write the sound followed by the ''r'' in ''bird'' is [e:]. Correction /g@mbe:rger/.
Dwayne   Monday, February 16, 2004, 21:48 GMT
Steve,
I know what is correct in English. I said how Russians pronounce this word in Russia; that is how you will hear in Russian McDonalds, for example.
Richard   Monday, February 16, 2004, 22:00 GMT
The spelling reform fanetiks
http://members.aol.com/Fanetiks/

Had an idea of how to distinguish homonyms. Like see/sea, no/know etc. They spelled them as se/see and no/noe etc.

This was fanetiks alphabet.

Vowels
a-schwa sound
aa-cat, land, pad
ae-lake, day
ai-airmail
au-caught, law
aur-court, corn
e-get, head, said
ee-meat, feet, hen
er-butter, fern, hurt
i-big, lid, fin
ie-light
o-hot, cot, father
oe-okay, home
oi-point
oo-book, hood
or-cart, mark
ou-how, mount
u-up, butter
ue-moon, soon, new, boot.
yue-view, hugh, huge, beautiful, mute

Consonants
b-best
ch-chair
d-dog
f-fish
g-give
h-hat
j-judge
k-cat, cow, kit
l-little
m-mit
n-night
ng-ring
ngg-finger, longer.
p-pie
r-rye
s-side
sh-shed
t-tile
th-that
tth-thing
v-vase
w-web
y-yes
z-zoo
zh-television, garage.
Jarec   Monday, February 16, 2004, 23:14 GMT
2 Steve:
I know how those words are pronounced in English. That pronunciation I gave is Slovak. I just used /^/ instead of /a/. If I'm not mistaken, they are the same sounds but /a/ is being used in dipthongs like /aI/ or long vowels like /a:/.

2 Dwayne:
Apparently not many English speakers speak also German and so they don't know how to pronounce it.
How do you mean that /@/ and /^/ are the same in Russian? /@/ is often denoted as /ae/ in dictionaries and it is a different sound. /^/ is a normal Slavic A. Does the Russian language have something similar to the /@/ sound?
Is it hard for the Russians to learn /h/?
Juan   Monday, February 16, 2004, 23:27 GMT
>>both sounds /^/ and /@/ are considered to be the same in Russian<<

They sound identical to me too.
Jarec   Monday, February 16, 2004, 23:41 GMT
So you mean you would pronounce "in fact" and "in fucked" the same? I have a teacher who constantly says "in fucked" instead of "in fact" and it always cracks me up.
Dwayne   Tuesday, February 17, 2004, 00:06 GMT
Jarec:
>>>Apparently not many English speakers speak also German<<<
I guess so, especially in the US...
>>>How do you mean that /@/ and /^/ are the same in Russian<<<
Russians cannot hear any difference between them unless they learn English. In fact, the Russian language has only six vowel sounds, so "sheep" and "ship" or "full" and "fool" also sound the same for Russian ears.
>>>/^/ is a normal Slavic A<<<
Perhaps, Russian A is more often /^/ than /@/, but there is no rule here, besides there are different accents in Russian, though people don't pay much attention to it because it does not cause problems with understanding.
>>>Is it hard for the Russians to learn /h/<<<
I don't think so.
>>>I have a teacher who constantly says "in fucked" instead of "in fact" and it always cracks me up. <<<
LOL.
A common Russian mistake is to pronounce "can't" as "cunt" :-)

Juan:
>>>They sound identical to me too<<<
What is your mother tongue if I might ask?
Tom   Tuesday, February 17, 2004, 01:22 GMT
Jarec, /a:/, /^/ and the "a" in /ai/ and /au/ are all different sounds, which is why they are represented by different symbols.
Paul   Tuesday, February 17, 2004, 15:23 GMT
American English makes a surprising number of Vowel distinctions and then you have to tack on another "ah" (father) in the British accent of English.