Is there something like Syllable Dictionary?

Joe,

Is it not possible to say /Kw/?

As for this question, Asked by George washington wannabe.

''Jim, do you think that in a phonemic spelling reform the Scottish distinction between ''c/k'' and ''ch'' should be shown?''

''Should ''chasm'', ''chlorine'', ''chemical'', technology'' etc. Become ''khazym'', ''khloreen'', ''khemicyl'', ''tekhnolyjy'' or something like that in a phonemic spelling reform''

''[K@z..m], [Klo:ri:n], [Kem..k..l], [teKnol..ji{:} etc.''

''See this thread - http://www.antimoon.com/forum/2004/4907-2.htm . ''

My answer,

No, we should only include the distinctions made by the majority. The same reason why we should ignore the ''wh/w'' distinction. Besides, [W] and [hw] sound almost if not exactly the same.

Should /K/ be included? My answer is that it all depends on what kind of spelling reform you're after. If it's one like mine, that strives to indicate every distinction that everyone makes, then yes.

However, that question would then become "Is such a reform a good idea?" My answer would then be "No." inspite of my suggested proposal. I say "No." because of my answer to an even more basic question, i.e. "Is any spelling reform a good idea?" I don't think so.

It's kind of fun to come up with reformed spelling systems but I don't believe that any of them should be adopted. "Stick with traditional spelling." I say.

BACK TO THE INITIAL CLUSTER LIST

Okay, there's no /Kt/ so let's put /sf/ in it's place. Also, what about the "sch" in "school": is it /sK/?

87 /K/ Chasm?
88 /Kr/ Christmas?
89 /Kl/ chlorine?
90 /kn/ knock, knee?
91 /gn/ gnome, gnu?
92 /sf/ sphere, spherical
93 /hw/ Huang River
94 /L/ Llwyd
95 /Kw/ choir?
96 /sK/ school, scholar?

Joe,

I can see how it would look as if I'd been calling you a nut but truely it was an honest mistake: the "n" key is right next to the "b" key.

Jim, So how do you respell this sentence in your system?

''They went to church and saw the choir and then filled the pool with a chemical called chlorine and then later they drove by the school and got a good present last Christmas''

Do you respell it as,

''Thay went too church and saw tha khwier and then fild tha pool with a khemykyl cauled khloreen and then laiter thay droav bi tha skhool and got a good prezynt last Khrismys.''

Sorry for calling you a nut. I didn't know if you were or were not calling me a nut until you told me.

JIM, HOW DOES YOUR SYSTEM DEAL WITH THESE DISTINCTIONS?


''RE-POST''


''SOLUTIONS TO OBSCURE DISTINCTIONS''

''Jim, What do you think about these solutions?''


''[u..] in ''skua''.''

uua-[u..]
uwa-[u:..]

skua becomes ''skyuua''

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

''[E]-tenner ''used by some Northern Irish people that distinguish this word from ''tenor'' by using a longer vowel.''

eh-[E] tenner-tehner

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

[@:]-mad, sad, bad ''used by some Southern Englishmen that don't rhyme these words with ''lad'' and ''pad''.

aa-[@:]

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

[I]-libel ''A diphthong used by some Scots that don't rhyme this word with bible.

ii-[I]


[J]-canyon, lasagna, piñata ''Palatal nasal sound'' used by some people, distinguished by some people from the ''ni'' in ''opinion'', ''companion'' and ''onion'' [nj].

nh or ny-[J]

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

[i..] ''meat'', ''read'', ''real'', ''sea'' [distinguished in some parts of Scotland and the British Isles from the vowel in ''meet'', ''reed'', ''reel'' and ''sea''.]

ea-[i..] meat, beak, sneak

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

[ö]-lose ''A vowel used by some Scots that use a different vowel in ''lose'' than the vowel in ''moos'' and ''loose''. [ö]'s IPA symbol is [o].

ooh-[ö]

lose-loohz
moos-muuz

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

[ü]-loose ''A vowel used by some Scots that use a different vowel in ''loose'' than in ''lose''.

uw-[ü]

loose-luws
goose-guus

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

According to this link http://www.uni-mainz.de/FB/Philologie-II/fb1413/roesel/seminar0203/regional_varieties/Scotland.htm [ö] and [ü] are two distinct phonemes different from [u:] for some Scots. For some Scots ''lose'' doesn't rhyme with ''zoos''. [löz] vs. [zu:z]. And also ''loose'' has a different vowel sound in it than ''lose'' and doesn't rhyme with ''moose'' and ''goose''. [ü] is a diphthong according to that link unlike [ö] and [u:] which are monothongs. It says for some Scots [ö], [ü] and [u:] are three distinct phonemes. [ö] is the close-mid back rounded vowel represented in the IPA as [o].

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

[U] ''loumie'', ''soup'', ''coup'', ''group'', ''through'', ''coupon'. [Distinguished by some Scots by the vowel sound in ''roomy'', ''coo'', ''hoop'' and ''threw''.]

ue-[U]

coup-cue
coo-cu
group-gruep

uo-[y]

rue-rhuo [Ry]

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

[j:]-digne [''indicates that during the articulation of the preceding consonant the tongue has substantially the position it has for the articulation of the \y\ of yard, as in digne [dEnj:] Thus [j:] does not itself represent a sound but rather modifies the preceding symbol.]

yh-[j:]

digne-deenyh
dean-dean

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

The ''le'' vs. ''al'', ''el'', ''ol'' distinction - [.l] vs. [..l] made by some people that don't rhyme ''label'' with ''table'' and pronounce ''metal'' and ''mettle'' differently.

yl-[.l]
yll-[..l]

or

yll-[.l
yl-[..l]

metal-metyll or metyl
mettle-metyl or metyll

Which way around?

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

''[ø]-foehn [IPA symbol]''

oh-[ø]

''[a]-a la ''pronounced [a-la]'' [IPA symbol]

ao-[a]

THE FOREIGN R'S

[R]-rue, rouge ''voiced uvular fricative''

rh-[R]

[r:]-pero ''tapped ''r'' - the ''alveolar flap''.

r'-[r:]

[r*]-karate, karaoke - Japanese ''r''

rhh-[r*]

[r+]-Spanish ''burr'', ''perro''- ''rolled ''r'' - the ''alveolar trill''.

rrr-[r+]

''hire'' vs. ''higher'', ''lyre'' vs. ''liar'' and ''flour'' vs. ''flower''.
''Some people say ''hire''-[hair] and ''higher''-
[hai-..r], ''lyre''=[lair] ''liar''=[lai-..r] and ''flour''=[flaur] ''flower''=[flau-..r].''

ier-[air]
ieyer-[ai-..r]

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

The Scottish ''ch'' vs. ''c/k'', [K] vs. [k] distinction?

''Christmas'', ''technology'', ''chemical'', ''chasm'', ''chlorine''.

kh-[K]

tekhnolyjy'', ''khemykyl'', ''khazym'', ''khloreen''.

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

OTHER FOREIGN SOUNDS.

[B]-voiced bilabial fricative- ''Cuba'', ''guava''

bh-[B] ''cuubhah'' or ''cuubaa'' and ''gwahbhah'' or ''gwaabhaa''


[?]-glottal stop-''Hawai'i'' [h..wai?i{:}] pronounced that way in the Hawaiian language.

hh-[?]

Hawaii-Hywiehhy

[l:]-light ''l'' at the end of a syllable - French pronunciation of ''belle'' as different from the ''ll'' in ''bell''. [bel:]

lh-[l:]-light ''l'' at the end of a syllable.

belle-belh
bell-bel

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Quote-''There are two L sounds in English, one forward in the mouth ("light", for being closer to outside light), one toward the back ("dark"). The light-L, which has a crisper sound for being formed by firm contact of the tongue with the gum ridge, is used at the beginning of a syllable always, and in final position often. The dark-L, which has a hollow sound because the main body of the tongue is pulled back and up toward the roof of the mouth well behind the gum ridge as to form a little cave, is used before a consonant (e.g., "cold") and in final position ("full", "cool"). Dark-L is never properly used at the beginning of a syllable, for it would produce a sound like gargling.''

Samples

''lull'' forwards http://ccms.ntu.edu.tw/~karchung/lull.wav
''lull'' backwards http://ccms.ntu.edu.tw/~karchung/llul.wav

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Oh, and then there's the R-vowels,

Solutions

earr-[i..{r}] vs. [i:r] hear, tear, near
eer-[i:r] vs. [i..{r]] beer, here, pier

Others

oor-[u..{r}] vs. [u:r] ''moor''
uer-[u..{r}] vs. [u:r] vs. [Ur] ''tour''

''flour'' vs. ''flower'' distinction

[aur]-our
[au-..r]-ower

''IAL'' VS. ''ILE'' - / - ''OWL/OUL VS. OWEL - / - ''OIL'' VS. OYAL'' - / - DISTINCTIONS.

For some people ''dial'' and ''tile'' don't rhyme, [dai-..l] vs. [tail] and for some people also ''owl'' and ''towel'' and ''boil'' and ''loyal'' don't rhyme, [aul] vs. [tau-..l] and [boil] vs. [loi-..l].

Solutions,

[ail]-iel
[ai-..l]-iyl
[aul]-oul
[aul]-owyl
[oil]-oil
[oi-..l]-oiyl

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

My post-''The ''le'' vs. ''al'', ''el'', ''ol'' distinction - [.l] vs. [..l] made by some people that don't rhyme ''label'' with ''table'' and pronounce ''metal'' and ''mettle'' differently.''

''yl-[.l]
yll-[..l]''

or

''yll-[.l
yl-[..l]''

''metal-metyll or metyl
mettle-metyl or metyll''

''Which way around?

If you want the Welsh ''ll'' at the end of a word you can use ''lll''.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------


MY SYSTEM IGNORES THEM LIKE IT SHOULD. IT IGNORES ''WH'' VS. ''W'' TOO.

I don't think it's impossible to say /Kw/ (difficult maybe but not necessarily impossible) but it still seems that the idea that some might say /Kwair/ for "choir" seems like a bit of a stab in the dark. Seems to me that /Koir/ would be more likely (but this is still only a guess).

''Jim, So how do you respell this sentence in your system?''

''''They went to church and saw the choir and then filled the pool with a chemical called chlorine and then later they drove by the school and got a good present last Christmas''''

Do you respell it as,

''''Thay went too church and saw tha khwier and then fild tha pool with a khemykyl cauled khloreen and then laiter thay droav bi tha skhool and got a good prezynt last Khrismys.''''

''Sorry for calling you a nut. I didn't know if you were or were not calling me a nut until you told me.'' '

No, you made a few errors I think.

How does Jim's system deal with those distinctions? I think it ignores them, Is that right Jim?

...............................

Often a thread about some other topic gets side-tracked by spelling reform or some other tangent.

HOW DOES JIM DEAL WITH THESE DISTRACTIONS?

HE IGNORES THEM LIKE HE SHOULD ... SOMETIMES.

Other times he tends to make some smart aleck comment which he usually tends to regret in time. Other times, when he's being nice, he redirects the tangent to a more approapriate place.

What's he going to do this time?

What am I going to do? Be nice. See my answers at
http://www.antimoon.com/forum/2004/4907-2.htm

Oh, and there's also [zw] in ''zwieback'' [zwaib@k]

97. /zw/ zwieback

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=zwieback

We're getting close to 100.

Any one fancy a wee drink to chill out a bit? I mean, like a cola or a sprite! :-)

It's 03:25AM here and I go woken by some disturbance outside with sirens and flashing blue lights everywhere..so I logged in here for a wee while. Now i'm getting sleepy again.