Tuesday, July 20, 2004, 12:39 GMT
In the topic "Language and thought" (http://www.antimoon.com/forum/2004/5208.htm), I wrote:
(BTW, I wonder if American English is the only language that has a disparaging word for a smart person. If that were true, what would it say about American culture?)
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Julian replied:
I doubt that AmE is the only language that has disparaging terms for smart people. But it's sad, innit?
In school we had all sorts of disparaging (or at the very least, unkind) terms for our more studious classmates: nerd, geek, dweeb, brainiac, herbert, egghead, bookworm, etc. While the popular kids in school were the jocks and cheerleaders who spent a whole lot of time partying and a lot less time studying. It certainly doesn't help matters when our modern day heroes are 18 year-old sports figures plucked straight out of high school and signed to five year contracts worth $61 million; and pretty pop singers with hit reality shows who find programming a VCR much too taxing for their pretty little minds. Whenever I substitute teach at high schools, I'm always shocked at what these kids know and don't know.
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Xatufan replied:
My friends call me nerd all the time. This word exists in Spanish, it was taken from English. Yes Tom, some languages adopt different ways of thinking when they adopt new words like nerd.
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CalifJim replied:
AmEng is probably not the only one, but the U.S. is undoubtedly the most anti-intellectual country in the world. (The typical American revels in his ignorance.)
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mjd replied:
I wouldn't say "nerd" is a word for a smart person. There is more to being a nerd than just being smart. One who is labeled a nerd generally lacks social skills and appears awkward, be it the way they dress or look.
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Mi5 Mick replied:
As mjd says, "nerd" doesn't mean smart, although smartness is often a side effect of nerdiness. "Geek" is closer to smart but can have a positive connotation; "nerd" is more related to social inaptitude. The stereotypical images for nerds are oversized glasses with padding for the nose, pens in the shirt pocket, unfashionable clothing, and mannerisms of low self-worth.
Maybe the difference between geek and nerd has hazed over somewhat these days but being a nerd in the early days was ultimate humiliation.
The movie "Revenge of the Nerds" used mostly intelligent characters but there were dumb nerds too! 'Booger' was hapless with women, grubby and dumb:
http://sidesalad.net/archives/BoogerJpg.jpg
and on the far right:
http://www.fhmus.com/images/survey/nerds/main.jpg
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Damian replied:
mjd and Mick are right when they says that a nerd is someone who is so devoted to his (or her but is usually a male!) activity that they lack the ability to socially interact. However expert the nerd is in whatever sphere of interest it is not considered cool to be afflicted with nerdiness (or geekiness). Here in the UK another term is used to describe someone so wrapped up in his nerdy activity that he lacks this coolness .... anorak. Maybe it's because they wear anoraks to brave the elements as they stand on railway platforms spotting trains or sloshing through marshes to look at rare birds or whatever. Hey!.... maybe we're wordy nerds here in Antimoon?
In a way it's sad really. Now it's uncool......I suppose years ago it was just considered eccentric, but what's the difference?
Basically, it's true....calling someone a nerd or a geek is not meant to be a compliment however knowledgeable the nerd or geek or anorak is.
(BTW, I wonder if American English is the only language that has a disparaging word for a smart person. If that were true, what would it say about American culture?)
___
Julian replied:
I doubt that AmE is the only language that has disparaging terms for smart people. But it's sad, innit?
In school we had all sorts of disparaging (or at the very least, unkind) terms for our more studious classmates: nerd, geek, dweeb, brainiac, herbert, egghead, bookworm, etc. While the popular kids in school were the jocks and cheerleaders who spent a whole lot of time partying and a lot less time studying. It certainly doesn't help matters when our modern day heroes are 18 year-old sports figures plucked straight out of high school and signed to five year contracts worth $61 million; and pretty pop singers with hit reality shows who find programming a VCR much too taxing for their pretty little minds. Whenever I substitute teach at high schools, I'm always shocked at what these kids know and don't know.
___
Xatufan replied:
My friends call me nerd all the time. This word exists in Spanish, it was taken from English. Yes Tom, some languages adopt different ways of thinking when they adopt new words like nerd.
___
CalifJim replied:
AmEng is probably not the only one, but the U.S. is undoubtedly the most anti-intellectual country in the world. (The typical American revels in his ignorance.)
___
mjd replied:
I wouldn't say "nerd" is a word for a smart person. There is more to being a nerd than just being smart. One who is labeled a nerd generally lacks social skills and appears awkward, be it the way they dress or look.
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Mi5 Mick replied:
As mjd says, "nerd" doesn't mean smart, although smartness is often a side effect of nerdiness. "Geek" is closer to smart but can have a positive connotation; "nerd" is more related to social inaptitude. The stereotypical images for nerds are oversized glasses with padding for the nose, pens in the shirt pocket, unfashionable clothing, and mannerisms of low self-worth.
Maybe the difference between geek and nerd has hazed over somewhat these days but being a nerd in the early days was ultimate humiliation.
The movie "Revenge of the Nerds" used mostly intelligent characters but there were dumb nerds too! 'Booger' was hapless with women, grubby and dumb:
http://sidesalad.net/archives/BoogerJpg.jpg
and on the far right:
http://www.fhmus.com/images/survey/nerds/main.jpg
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Damian replied:
mjd and Mick are right when they says that a nerd is someone who is so devoted to his (or her but is usually a male!) activity that they lack the ability to socially interact. However expert the nerd is in whatever sphere of interest it is not considered cool to be afflicted with nerdiness (or geekiness). Here in the UK another term is used to describe someone so wrapped up in his nerdy activity that he lacks this coolness .... anorak. Maybe it's because they wear anoraks to brave the elements as they stand on railway platforms spotting trains or sloshing through marshes to look at rare birds or whatever. Hey!.... maybe we're wordy nerds here in Antimoon?
In a way it's sad really. Now it's uncool......I suppose years ago it was just considered eccentric, but what's the difference?
Basically, it's true....calling someone a nerd or a geek is not meant to be a compliment however knowledgeable the nerd or geek or anorak is.