My French teacher doesn't nasalize "in-"

Jordi, good to see you here again! :-)))

Sorry for posting twice, it was an accident, but I'm glad nevertheless. :-)

>>I'm very proud of the slight southern accent I have when I speak French and I definitely pass for a Frenchman in Paris.<<

Well, that's quite an accomplishment. I could pass for a native English speaker in writing (forgive the incongruency of the two terms), but I guess I always have a slight Hungarian accent when speaking. That's the result of my using foreign languages mostly in writing nowadays, I guess.

As for French accents: it is the Swiss French accent that I can follow the most easily, and I'm still better off with Southern dialects than with the Parisian one. What causes the most problems to me is that many French people speak way too fast for me to follow, and they use sort of a nasal "filler" (something like the "-in" sound discussed here), which definitely does not make things easier. But I keep trying...

Dear Easterner:
The phonetic system of a language is acquired before you're 9 years old. It is very difficult to learn a language, after that age, without an accent. It doesn't mean there aren't cases but it is extremely difficult. This is why bilingual or trilingual teaching should start as earliest as possible. I was extremely lucky because I lived in two countries and four languages before that age. My mother is a gifted linguist and that helped an awful lot.
A lot has been studied on this subject and I'm sure it's all in the Internet. Since I learnt four languages before that age I don't have a "foreign" accent in any of them although I do have "an accent of my own", which is native in the four languages but which is definitely mine. I'm sure you'll understand what I mean. I tend to speak these 4 languages with a cultivated regional accent. I don't have a foreign accent in Occitan and Italians never know which Italian region I'm from although my Italian is not as fluent as the other languages. I understand Portuguese well and have studied a couple of years of German.

Jordi

I didn't know there was an educated southern accent, considering there are a few from what I understand -- well at least in the subtletity department. I wouldn't have thought this characteristic nasal was regarded as uneducated, though I do notice some people try to suppress it. I find it charming.

>>although I do have "an accent of my own", which is native in the four languages but which is definitely mine. I'm sure you'll understand what I mean.<<

I do hear overtones in your accent, though I can't say if it's Catalan or Spanish; I don't know the difference, eg. "th" and 'z'. I also hear the British side of it in "ah" words like "bath".

Mick:
There is a page in the Internet with French accents. It's very interesting. I'm sure you'll find it. By Educated Southern I mean any French which is spoken by a southern Frenchman who's been to University and speaks "more formal" French without fully losing his accent. I do tend to pronounce all vowels in French as Nic said. Accents can change slightly even in the same person and within his lifetime.
An Australian who's been living in London for a few years will slightly change his accent. When I spend more than a week in London I usually find my accent can change a little. A few days in one place is usually enough for very slight variations. They will be more obvious to the trained ear. Catalan does make the difference between "s" and "ss" as does French. Spanish doesn't.
I don't have as much contact as I would like to with Australians but I remember spending a few days with an Australian some years ago. It's funny how quickly the "real thing" comes back when you've learnt it as a child. There is always a "levelling" side that will make you sound more like the person you're speaking with. More British if you speak with Brits, more Australian if you speak with Australians. Specially when you've had strong contacts with both communities. Most people do tell me, though, I sound Australian and I imagine you will agree on the whole. Since I'm 45 I've realised that younger Australians have evolved quite a bit in the past 20-30 years. Olders Australians tend to sound slightly differently and I did learn the language in Sydney in the late sixties and early seventies, ages ago. It still is amazing how one basically keeps the accent you learn as a child and how easy it is, in favourable conditions, to come back to it.

It's like my wife who's scottish, she does not have any scottish accent when she's with english, americans people... but it's not the case when she's with her family or with scottish friends.

Nothing magic happens at the age of nine (or at any other age) that makes learning to speak a language without an accent more difficult. That is one of the most persistent (and pernicious) myths in linguistics, so much so that even many linguists cling to it as religious dogma, despite the absence of any proof that it is true (and the existence of counterexamples that disprove the idea).

Good morning / Bonjour

A slight sideline but the topic IS French....

It's how you speak a language now what you say! The English generally think of the French as passionate, based I guess on HOW they react physically as they speak.....the French probably think of the English as full of "sang froid". As a Scot I know what they mean but that's another story ;-)

This is an extract from one of today's British national newspapers:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2004/10/21/do2103.xml

Sort of reinforces the notion that English is best for business/commercial affairs whereas french is best for affairs of the heart.

Speaking personally, I don't necessarily agree completely with that! English literature is bursting with words of passion every bit as much as is French. Perhaps the difference comes in the verve and emotion and physical movements that accompany those words! ;-)

french - French!

sorry!! ;-(

Re: learning to speak a language without an accent past preadolescence: the proof is, hardly any people speak their second language without an accent or the fluency of their first language.

The couterproof is: people who learn their second language from birth/preadolescence speak it better than those who don't!

This almost always the case. Yes, it's a generalisation but it's a good one.

This is almost always the case. Yes, it's a generalisation but it's a good one.