Wednesday, November 10, 2004, 02:40 GMT
"Most ESL students will never go near Australia," you say. I take your point but, on the other hand, many do. Many go to New Zealand too. What of them? You continue "... so whether or not they talk like Australians is irrelevant." I wonder where you might have got the impression that either Mick or I are suggesting that ESL students be taught to speak like Australians.
"Throughout most of the rest of the world, they can pronounce gate as [get] and they will be understood without any problem," you tell us. I have my doubts about this. Too often, Mxsmanic, do you make these claims without a great deal to support them. What study have you done to show this to be the case? I've lived in Canada for a few years, I'm sure I said a couple of words with an /e/ in them I don't recall ever being misunderstood as having said /ei/. Of course context helps and so it might with the ESL students' saying [get].
So you say that [get] would be recognised as "gate" not "get" and I assume you'll say [wed] would be recognised as "wade" not "wed". I'm unconvinced. I'd certainly hear "get" and "wed" ... unless, perhaps, it was [ge:t] and [we:d]*. Even an irrelevant Aussie like me could perhaps recognise [e:] to be /ei/; as long as other factors told me that it wouldn't be /e../. But vowel length is completely "unimportant", ay, Mxsmanic? It should be noted that [ge(j)t] and [we(j)d] would easily be understood.
You go on "... particularly if they also pronounce get as [gEt]." sure, assuming that the listener is familiar with how the student pronounces "get". This is more than you could assume for most of the people the student will be likely to encounter.
"For most native English speakers," you tell us "there's a huge different between [e] and [E]," Of course there is. These are two different phones. Were there no noticible distinction then we'd be unaware of the difference in accent between the pronunciation of "get" in GAE and in NZE.
The question is "How is the phoneme /e/ pronounced?" It varies between [e] and [E]. Maybe AusE is a little extreme with the closeness of its /e/; NZE is a little more so. However you need not go to such extremes. Indeed in RP (one of your "standard" accents and one which your students ask about) /e/ is somewhere in between, according to the graph at the following address.
http://www.ling.mq.edu.au/units/ling210-901/phonetics/vowelgraphs/RPE_Monophthongs.html
Take a good look at the graph. It should give you cause for some concern regarding your claims. [E] and [e] are distinct phonetically, there's no doubt about that, but either one and anything in between could easily be heard as /e/. Or are you going to continue to write as if you know better than the Department of Linguistics at Macquarie University?
Moreover, would we not be asking a little much of students to have them distinguish between five front monophthongs? Surely it would be simplier to use [i:, I, e] and [æ] (or [i:, I, E] and [æ]) than to use [i:, I, e, E] and [æ]. Four distinct front monophthongs are more than enough for many ESL students to handle. Where would the logic be in suggesting that they add another to the list?
Also, you write as if AusE and NZE can be completely disregarded as irrelavant and unimportant. Okay, assume this is true. We'll forget about mentioning that /ei/ can be pronounced as [æI]. How about the accents in which /ei/ can be pronounced [e] albeit actually [e:] or [e(j)]. Are they "important"? Are they "relevant"? Are they "standard"? In GAE and RP /ei/ is pronounced [eI], it's a diphthong.
As far as I'm aware. The only dialect in which /ei/ becomes a monophthong is the Californian one. It many indeed be more wide-spread than I'm aware of but, for all I know, so might [æI] be. Didn't we get our [æI] from the Cockneys in the first place? When it comes down to it though, to call Californian English "standard" but to refuse the label for AusE and NZE is just silly.
If you tell the students that /ei/ can be pronounced [e], why not mention that it can be pronounced [æI]? The problem is that [æI] could be mistaken for /ai/ but similarly [e] could be mistaken for /e/ so ... what to do? What to do? Why not go for something in between, like the [eI] of GAE and RP?
Whatever you do, though, teaching ESL students to pronounce /ei/ as [e] seems a very bad idea. Most ESL students will never go near California, so whether or not they talk like Californians is irrelevant. If it's intelligiblity that your students want, and well it should be, then it would be best to teach them that /ei/ is a diphthong.
* Note: between slashes I'm using Tom's phonemic alphabet and in brackets is a crude ASCII approximation to the IPA. So [we:d] is "wade" pronounced with a long [e] whereas /we:d/ would be "word", i.e. [w3:d]. Note also that [e(j)] is a palatised [e], i.e. "e" with a superscript "j" in the IPA.
"Throughout most of the rest of the world, they can pronounce gate as [get] and they will be understood without any problem," you tell us. I have my doubts about this. Too often, Mxsmanic, do you make these claims without a great deal to support them. What study have you done to show this to be the case? I've lived in Canada for a few years, I'm sure I said a couple of words with an /e/ in them I don't recall ever being misunderstood as having said /ei/. Of course context helps and so it might with the ESL students' saying [get].
So you say that [get] would be recognised as "gate" not "get" and I assume you'll say [wed] would be recognised as "wade" not "wed". I'm unconvinced. I'd certainly hear "get" and "wed" ... unless, perhaps, it was [ge:t] and [we:d]*. Even an irrelevant Aussie like me could perhaps recognise [e:] to be /ei/; as long as other factors told me that it wouldn't be /e../. But vowel length is completely "unimportant", ay, Mxsmanic? It should be noted that [ge(j)t] and [we(j)d] would easily be understood.
You go on "... particularly if they also pronounce get as [gEt]." sure, assuming that the listener is familiar with how the student pronounces "get". This is more than you could assume for most of the people the student will be likely to encounter.
"For most native English speakers," you tell us "there's a huge different between [e] and [E]," Of course there is. These are two different phones. Were there no noticible distinction then we'd be unaware of the difference in accent between the pronunciation of "get" in GAE and in NZE.
The question is "How is the phoneme /e/ pronounced?" It varies between [e] and [E]. Maybe AusE is a little extreme with the closeness of its /e/; NZE is a little more so. However you need not go to such extremes. Indeed in RP (one of your "standard" accents and one which your students ask about) /e/ is somewhere in between, according to the graph at the following address.
http://www.ling.mq.edu.au/units/ling210-901/phonetics/vowelgraphs/RPE_Monophthongs.html
Take a good look at the graph. It should give you cause for some concern regarding your claims. [E] and [e] are distinct phonetically, there's no doubt about that, but either one and anything in between could easily be heard as /e/. Or are you going to continue to write as if you know better than the Department of Linguistics at Macquarie University?
Moreover, would we not be asking a little much of students to have them distinguish between five front monophthongs? Surely it would be simplier to use [i:, I, e] and [æ] (or [i:, I, E] and [æ]) than to use [i:, I, e, E] and [æ]. Four distinct front monophthongs are more than enough for many ESL students to handle. Where would the logic be in suggesting that they add another to the list?
Also, you write as if AusE and NZE can be completely disregarded as irrelavant and unimportant. Okay, assume this is true. We'll forget about mentioning that /ei/ can be pronounced as [æI]. How about the accents in which /ei/ can be pronounced [e] albeit actually [e:] or [e(j)]. Are they "important"? Are they "relevant"? Are they "standard"? In GAE and RP /ei/ is pronounced [eI], it's a diphthong.
As far as I'm aware. The only dialect in which /ei/ becomes a monophthong is the Californian one. It many indeed be more wide-spread than I'm aware of but, for all I know, so might [æI] be. Didn't we get our [æI] from the Cockneys in the first place? When it comes down to it though, to call Californian English "standard" but to refuse the label for AusE and NZE is just silly.
If you tell the students that /ei/ can be pronounced [e], why not mention that it can be pronounced [æI]? The problem is that [æI] could be mistaken for /ai/ but similarly [e] could be mistaken for /e/ so ... what to do? What to do? Why not go for something in between, like the [eI] of GAE and RP?
Whatever you do, though, teaching ESL students to pronounce /ei/ as [e] seems a very bad idea. Most ESL students will never go near California, so whether or not they talk like Californians is irrelevant. If it's intelligiblity that your students want, and well it should be, then it would be best to teach them that /ei/ is a diphthong.
* Note: between slashes I'm using Tom's phonemic alphabet and in brackets is a crude ASCII approximation to the IPA. So [we:d] is "wade" pronounced with a long [e] whereas /we:d/ would be "word", i.e. [w3:d]. Note also that [e(j)] is a palatised [e], i.e. "e" with a superscript "j" in the IPA.