The Official languages are english AND french but...

Easterner,


So, can we say the hungary is the france for the east and France is the Hungary for the west. Are you hungarian?
Hungary seems to be apart because of its language and because of its history : austro hungarian empire. Of course all the countries have their own specificities. As an occidental from the west i don't know anything about slavic culture apart the writers i have read especially russians, polish and czeh.

East european cultures especially their architecture seem to be very interesting. I wish we could learn more about our east neignhboors at french school. Because they are not so far, you just need to pass through Germany or through Italy and you are in slavic countries. I always thought it was a shame we don't learn anything.
We only learn about USSR but nothing about the others. Is it the same in your country, did the educational system ignored west european countries or did you learn things about France, Italy, Great Britain, Spain... I am not talking about germans who are isolated in Europe because they have on 1 side latin neighboors, slavic on the other side... and established relations with polish like with french, italians...

for example, you can learn french in your school, in France you cannot learn polish, czeh, hungarian...in french school.

A correspondent in today's London "Daily Telegraph" responds to a claim made by another writer that linguistic skill is indispensable to modern business, stating that he wishes to correct this myth.

He says:

He loves languages, and that he speaks Spanish, French and German (to varying degrees)...oh, and as he lives in Cheshire, he speaks English, too. Much to his regret, after 25 years in international business, he concludes that those languages were irrelevant because business is so international. His fluent Spanish is useful in Madrid, but useless in Bonn, Osaka, Milan or Prague. The world needs an international business language. The world has chosen English, and native born English speakers should bless their luck.

The letter I did in precis, but almost verbatim.

Damian,


English is usefull for,business. But who does business, i mean, who writes books about business, which best universities are made for? British and amricans.

What i mean is, there is no a language for business but some people who makes business and are for a vast majority anglo saxon. I don't say it's bad but what i mean is : imagine if business was made by germanic cultures for example, what would happen. As you must know, german was a very efficient language you learned in the past for business. French, italians, polish ... used to learn it when they wanted to do business.

Because business is generated by anglo-saxon cultures, the language we use is english.

Look at the italians who were so efficient in business in the past, italian was perfect for it.

I can proove to you there is a real anglo-saxon domination in business :

2 examples :

-Some business men wanted to write only in english the notices you can fond on the article you buy, example with clothes. Of course, many people disagreed the idea and were not anglo-saxon but spanish, polish, french, ...

Look at the chocolate, the definition of chocolate is very different from a culture to another. In France, Belgium and Switzerland, it was unallowed to call chocolate a "Mars" bar, it was commercially called "barre chocolatée", it's not the case in USA (i don't know for GB) where it was possible to call it simply "chocolate".

Business men (USA) have imposed to the all world the word chocolate for their mars barre and it's now commercially legal to use the word chocolate in Belgium, Switzerland but not in France. Some belgians and swiss refused that idea.

So in that way, english is perfect if you accept the idea you can call chocolate a Mars bar.

As you can notice, english language in business is only 1 point of view who impose its own politic which does not really accept differences.

I am sure if business language included more scottish, spanish, portuguese, french, hungarian.... words, business could be more humanistic.


Soory for the mystakes, i have not time to reread myself.

Cheers Damian

I am in Taiwan and spent the previous week in Shanghai. Without Chinese I would be dead in the water. Ditto in Japan where I have built a business and have an office. In Sweden it helps even if not indispensable. In France it has been key to our business. In Italy and Spain it helped and even in Germany I used it more for business than English. So I definitely do not agree with your businessman in the Telegraph. I guess it depends on the individual. On top of that is the greater intimacy you can achieve with people in different countries if you speak their language.

If everyone speaks English the world will be a much more boring place.

Nic and Steve: hi and thanks for your posts, which I understand fully. You both make cogent comments.

I was not passing any personal opinion you understand..I was literally just quoting. It is part of my coursework right now to peruse the media (press and broadcasting) and with the former especially, I cannot resist the temptation to post suitable (I hope!) language links in here which may be of interest, using what I think may be the most appropriate thread without starting a new one.

I have said before in, this forum, that English really is the ideal language for business and commerce...that can be acsertained by checking back through the search facility. English can be clinical and suited to the world of big business, but exactly why I cannot categorically explain. Maybe someone here could. Of course, English also has great beauty and it is possible to express oneself in tender, romantic ways using it's extensive vocabulary.

However, I won't alter my belief that it will never quiet equal the true Romance languages in this art form....that's what they are best at....the world of romantic expression, without being soppy. Being romantic in English may well involve divorcing it from the language of hard headed business deals, takeover bids and current market trends, blah, blah, blah..... ;-)

Somehow I can't really imagine using Italian or French when speaking in the harsh terms of the cold, cruel commercial world. OK, that's just what I like to believe...reality is probably different, but what do I know about it anyway....yet.

Steve..I have acually said the very same thing! If the whole world spoke only English I would go and live in a tiny croft on a remote Hebridean island and live on seaweed and fish and ignore that awful world. All the fun of linguistic misunderstandings would be no more! Triste!

acsertained = ascertained

100 lines containing that word

Nic:

Referring to the chocolate issue, in the UK if you are not in a supermarket where you just drop them into your basket, you just ask for a "Mars bar" or a "Snickers" or a "Kit Kat" or an "Aero" or whatever the accepted commercial name is for the chocolate goody you fancy.

Why do I feel hungry all of a sudden? Nic..that's your fault! ;-)

btw: Belgian chocs are yummy....

nic said: >>So, can we say the hungary is the france for the east and France is the Hungary for the west. Are you hungarian?<<

A definite "yes" to your second question: I live in Hungary and speak Magyar (that's the way we call ourselves and our language), though I was born as an ethnic Hungarian outside Hungary, in Serbia. As for your first question: it's sort of true, because Hungary used to be a melting pot as well. Back in 1910, when the former Kingdom of Hungary still existed (as part of Austria-Hungary), half of the population was non-Hungarian, in much the same way as about half the population of France was non-French speaking during the French revolution (while of course being citizens of France) - I guess a lot more people spoke the Occitan dialects back then. Unfortunately Hungary and France stood at the opposite sides politically during much of the 20th century, but French culture often served as an inspiration for many Hungarians. Now both of our countries are part of that futuristic and Utopian experiment known as the EU. ;-)

By the way, people in countries behind the iron curtain knew a lot about Western Europe, although the travel possibilities from e.g. Hungary towards the West were very restricted - you had a separate passport for communist countries and another one for all other countries. This was not true for the former Yugoslavia, which was also a communist country but not in the Soviet zone, we could travel freely to the West. But a lot of people in the Soviet zone used to listen to the Free Europe Radio, (although it was constantly jammed by the communist governments), so they knew what was going on in the West.

Damian said: >>English can be clinical and suited to the world of big business, but exactly why I cannot categorically explain. Maybe someone here could. Of course, English also has great beauty and it is possible to express oneself in tender, romantic ways using it's extensive vocabulary.<<

I don't think this is only the privilege of English. I guess the Spanish conquistadors and Venetian merchants were equally calculating and business-like when it came to accumulating "capital", only their language did not spread to the whole world like that of Anglo-Saxon-style capitalism. As for your second statement, I agree to that fully: I could quote numerous evidence, were it not for lack of space. ;-)

Damian said: >>If the whole world spoke only English I would go and live in a tiny croft on a remote Hebridean island and live on seaweed and fish and ignore that awful world. All the fun of linguistic misunderstandings would be no more!<<

Damian, I guess you would not be alone. Would you accept companions? Oh, but then sooner or later the issue of a common language would inevitably crop up. I wonder which one would be chosen...? So we'd better never let Engish be the sole language of the world... Multilinguals of the world unite! ;-)

nic said: >>Business men (USA) have imposed to the all world the word chocolate for their mars barre and it's now commercially legal to use the word chocolate in Belgium, Switzerland but not in France. Some belgians and swiss refused that idea.

So in that way, english is perfect if you accept the idea you can call chocolate a Mars bar.<<

Then why do Belgians put fillings in theirs, and still call them chocolates? A Mars bar is the same - it contains an essential amount of chocolate and has a filling inside.

Damian,

i understand what you mean, there's no problem. I hope a day will come soon it will be possible to listen scots men speaking in celtic scottish language which reflects a so old and wonderfull country and culture with tartan, kilt, castles, music.

Eaterner, you said : " half the population of France was non-French speaking during the French revolution"

Believe me, it was more. The half population spoke occitan, french was not spoken in the north, neither in Bretagne. French was only soken by aristocacy in Ile de France and Anjou.


I have read some books wrotten by Gogol, there are some texts about Magyars (I knew that term), Gogol wrote they "drive" horses like cosaqs, drink like cosaqs and fight like cosaqs !!! Brave hungarian people.

Hgarianuns and austrians seem be very closer, right?

Damian,


Look at the scottish culture, they invented the actual monetary system and exported it in many countries like France for example. It was i remembered well my lessons in history scholl lessons in the 2nd half of the 18th century.

Rocky,

the answer is simple, in Berlgium, Swiss and France, chocolate is only made of cocoa with a minimum amount determined. Mars bars, Bounty...contains a very small amount of cocoa and some other ingredients which are not traditionnally used for chocolate.