Vowel mergers and things

I'm doing some research for this website I have, which, by the way, is right here: http://students.csci.unt.edu/~kun/dialindex.html

What I want to know is, what people have certain distinctions and mergers in the UK, and Ireland.

Mary vs. merry vs. marry: It seems that in every British TV show and movie I see, half the people say them different and the other half says them the same. What's going on here? (by the way, the name I used is an often-heard greeting in Philadelphia this time of year)

One of J.C. Wells' papers says "there are those who consistently distinguish such pairs as mane vs. main (Swansea Valley) or wait vs. weight (parts of the North of England)." What I'd like to know is, what do the different vowels actually sound like?

There were some more I wanted to post here but I can't remember them right now.

In Wales there is a three-way distinction between ''a-e'', ''ai'' and ''ei'' words like ''vane'', ''vain'' and ''vein''. ''vane'' is pronounced [ve:n], ''vain'' is pronounced [væIn] and ''vein'' is pronounce [veIn] (in X-sampa) respectively http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-SAMPA.

In Northern Ireland and Liverpool there's a two-way distinction between ''vane'' and ''vain''.

''Mary vs. merry vs. marry: It seems that in every British TV show and movie I see, half the people say them different and the other half says them the same. What's going on here?''

I don't know of any British accents where these three words are pronounced the same but in America ''Mary'', ''marry'' and ''merry'' are the same everywhere except for the Northeast where each are pronounced differently. Similarly, In almost all American Accents ''nearer'' and ''mirror'' rhyme, and ''serious'' and ''Sirius'' are pronounced the same.

''What I want to know is, what people have certain distinctions and mergers in the UK, and Ireland.''

Well, in Scotland and Northern Ireland there's a distinction between ''er'', ''ir'' and ''ur'' in ''fern'', ''fir'' and ''fur''. Those people that make the distinction pronounce ''er'' words with the vowel sound in ''pet'', ''ir'' words with the vowel sound in ''pit'' and ''ur'' words with the vowel sound in ''putt''.

In Northern England there's no distinction made between [u] and [^] (both sound like [u]) and so ''put'' and ''putt'' are homonyms there.

For some people from Southern England there's a short [æ] and a long [æ] split. For them ''lad'', ''cat'', ''had'', ''pad'' etc. has a short [æ] but ''mad'', ''sad'', ''bad'' and ''glad'' have a long [æ] (which I'll write as [æ:]).

In Wales word pairs like ''rude/rood'', ''suit/soot'', ''lute/loot'', ''chews/choose'', ''flew/flu'' etc. are often distinguished. They pronounce words like ''rude'', ''suit'', ''lute'', ''blue'', ''true'' etc. more like ''ryood'', ''syoot'', ''lyoot'', ''blyoo'', ''tryoo'' etc.

For many Scots there's a distinction between a voiceless velar stop /k/ in words like ''kit'', ''kitchen'', ''kick'', ''kangaroo'' etc. and a voiceless velar fricative /x/ in words like ''chord'', ''loch'', ''technology'', ''orchid'', ''chemical'', ''choreography'', ''school'', ''scholar'', ''schooner'', ''mechanic'', ''chrone'', ''chlorine'' etc.

"I don't know of any British accents where these three words are pronounced the same but in America ''Mary'', ''marry'' and ''merry'' are the same everywhere except for the Northeast where each are pronounced differently. Similarly, In almost all American Accents ''nearer'' and ''mirror'' rhyme, and ''serious'' and ''Sirius'' are pronounced the same. "

I'd like to clear this up. I am from Southern Florida and while I pronounce "Mary" and "merry" the same, I do NOT pronounce "marry" the same as the other two. So it is not true they are the same everywhere elese but the Northeast. "Mary" and "merry" are "meh-ree" for me while "marry" is "mah-ree" for me.

"Nearer" and "mirror" do not rhyme for me, its a close rhyme, but not an exact rhyme. "Neer-rer" and "mih-rer", "serious" and Sirius" are similar close rhymes as well. "See-ree-us" and "Sih-ree-us" But perhaps I am making too much of a fuss on these.

''I'd like to clear this up. I am from Southern Florida and while I pronounce "Mary" and "merry" the same, I do NOT pronounce "marry" the same as the other two. So it is not true they are the same everywhere elese but the Northeast. "Mary" and "merry" are "meh-ree" for me while "marry" is "mah-ree" for me.''

Well, the most common area where the distinction is made is the Northeast.

I'm not trying to argue with you, just clarify, but if you want to get defensive "common" and "same everywhere" have two different meanings.

"I don't know of any British accents where these three words are pronounced the same but in America ''Mary'', ''marry'' and ''merry'' are the same everywhere except for the Northeast where each are pronounced differently. Similarly, In almost all American Accents ''nearer'' and ''mirror'' rhyme, and ''serious'' and ''Sirius'' are pronounced the same."

Actually I was probably exaggerating when I said "almost all British TV shows..." I was just thinking of this show I saw, "Inspector Morse," and in one scene there were two characters who both happened to say the word "marry." One said [mæri] and the other said [meri]. I already know how it is in America (check out my site, Chapter 11) but I had no idea there was any distinction in south Florida. It's not surprising, though, since many people down there are either from the northeast or have parents from there. Some people call Miami "the 6th borough" (in reference to New York City which has 5 boroughs)

"Well, in Scotland and Northern Ireland there's a distinction between ''er'', ''ir'' and ''ur'' in ''fern'', ''fir'' and ''fur''. Those people that make the distinction pronounce ''er'' words with the vowel sound in ''pet'', ''ir'' words with the vowel sound in ''pit'' and ''ur'' words with the vowel sound in ''putt''."

I saw something to this effect in J.C. Wells' handout on Scotland, but it didn't say anything about "ir" words. I figured it was probably pronounced differently so it seems I was right.

"In Northern England there's no distinction made between [u] and [^] (both sound like [u]) and so ''put'' and ''putt'' are homonyms there."

I already knew about that one; there is no [^] in Northern England.

"For some people from Southern England there's a short [æ] and a long [æ] split. For them ''lad'', ''cat'', ''had'', ''pad'' etc. has a short [æ] but ''mad'', ''sad'', ''bad'' and ''glad'' have a long [æ] (which I'll write as [æ:])."

Now that is VERY interesting. In the New York City and Mid-Atlantic (Philadelphia & Baltimore) regions there is a split between "lax short-a" [æ] and "tense short-a" [e@] (@ means schwa) and linguists have long suspected that these systems are related to the British broad-a system. Most words which are broad /ah/ in southern England, like "bath," "pass," and "staff," are in the tense class in these split systems. You can find out more at my site's chapters 18 and 19. In New York City short-a is always tense before b, d, and g. Now here's the interesting part: in the Philadelphia system it is never tense before b and g, and before d only in three specific words: "mad," "bad," and "glad." I'm thinking there's a connection to your [æ:] here.

''One of J.C. Wells' papers says "there are those who consistently distinguish such pairs as mane vs. main (Swansea Valley) or wait vs. weight (parts of the North of England)." What I'd like to know is, what do the different vowels actually sound like?''


Murray Christmas,


I'm from Wales and I pronounce ''vane'' as [ve:n], ''vain'' as [væIn] and ''vein'' as [veIn].

Similarly, here's how I pronounce these words,

break-[bre:k]
steak-[ste:k]
Gaelic-[ge:lik]
main-[mæIn]
way-[wæI]
they-[DeI]
neighbor-[neIb@r/]
ray-[ræI]
plane-[ple:n]
plain-[plæIn]

Quote-''Now that is VERY interesting. In the New York City and Mid-Atlantic (Philadelphia & Baltimore) regions there is a split between "lax short-a" [æ] and "tense short-a" [e@] (@ means schwa) and linguists have long suspected that these systems are related to the British broad-a system. Most words which are broad /ah/ in southern England, like "bath," "pass," and "staff," are in the tense class in these split systems. You can find out more at my site's chapters 18 and 19. In New York City short-a is always tense before b, d, and g. Now here's the interesting part: in the Philadelphia system it is never tense before b and g, and before d only in three specific words: "mad," "bad," and "glad." I'm thinking there's a connection to your [æ:] here.''

I'm from Australia and the following words are distinguished in my accent by [æ] and [æ:] ([:] means long version of [æ])

bad-[bæd]
bade-[bæ:d]
can-[kæn] (able to)
can-[kæ:n] (metal container)

"I already know how it is in America (check out my site, Chapter 11) but I had no idea there was any distinction in south Florida. It's not surprising, though, since many people down there are either from the northeast or have parents from there. Some people call Miami "the 6th borough" (in reference to New York City which has 5 boroughs) "

I think this is a bit of a cop out explanation -wise. I have never heard anyone refer to Miami as the 6th borough - and I had plenty of chance to as I grew up there. If there is any major influence in Miami, it is Cuban. Last I heard (when I left four years ago) 55% of the population was Cuban. I would not be surprised if it has grown, seeing as Cubans have the unique immigration status of "touch land, you get to stay". Anybody else would be deported (and I've been witness to this). I'm not sure if this has affected our overall pronunciation, but there is a Cuban accent that I miss until I go home.

OK, I admit I only heard it on an episode of "CSI: Miami."

:) Maybe they were referring to the high crime rate.

"I'm from Australia and the following words are distinguished in my accent by [æ] and [æ:] ([:] means long version of [æ])

bad-[bæd]
bade-[bæ:d]
can-[kæn] (able to)
can-[kæ:n] (metal container)"

There's another Mid-Atlantic parallel I never knew about. In both New York and Philly accents, "can" (able to) is [kæn], because it is an "auxiliary word" while "can" (metal container) is [ke@n]. Meanwhile, "can't" (not able to) is [ke@nt].

Before today I had no idea there was any [æ]-[æ:] split going on anywhere. Now I have something else to listen for next time I watch anything made in Britain or Australia.

And would someone please reply to that post I wrote about "British broad a's" which looks like its about to get bumped to the next page?

One more thing: I think it's high time I came up with a better name, so from now on I think I'll simply be known as "Tom K."

''There's another Mid-Atlantic parallel I never knew about. In both New York and Philly accents, "can" (able to) is [kæn], because it is an "auxiliary word" while "can" (metal container) is [ke@n]. Meanwhile, "can't" (not able to) is [ke@nt].''

Here's how those words come out in my Australian accent,

can-[kæn] (able to)
can-[kæ:n] (metal container)
can't-[k6:nt] (not able to)

From X-sampa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-SAMPA#Other_symbols

The word ''can't'' has the ''father'' vowel in my accent and so do ''past'', ''fast'', ''pass'', ''laugh'', ''bath'', ''half'' and ''calf'' but not ''dance'', ''example'', ''answer'' and ''sample'' which have the ''cat'' vowel [æ].