Wallonia must be part of FRANCE

Fredrik from Norway   Sunday, January 23, 2005, 23:49 GMT
Has the language conflict paralyzed Belgium since the time when the two communities were forced toghether in the same, small state (ca. 1600?) When you think of how central and fertile this country is, it is strange that it has not contributed more to our European heritage the last 400 years. I can only name Tintin and some surrealist paintings...
Fredrik from Norway   Monday, January 24, 2005, 00:48 GMT
a concerned perspectivist:
You wrote: "
the only thing that matters in this world is how attractive your face and body are, how wealthy you are, and if you have a pretty-sounding name.
become a celebrity, and then you can be from whatever background you want. it is all meaningless. life is a power struggle and you are all merely over-privileged apes."

A more European perspective:
Shoot the celebrities!
Vive la revolution!
Macht aan het volk!
Volk aan de macht!
Rape the offenders against nature (=plastic fantastic babes)!
Ed   Monday, January 24, 2005, 02:15 GMT
No pasaran!
MusicLover   Monday, January 24, 2005, 03:01 GMT
Famous Flemish artists:


Lasgo
(their most famous song is SOMETHING; they're presently @ #1 in Bilboard Dance Airplay with the song ''Surrender''!!!, their new album will be released in the USA, next month!!!)

Kate Ryan
(remember ''Desenchantee, Scream for more, Only if'')

Milk inc
(remember ''In my Eyes'', ''Walk on water'', ''Land of the Living?'')

Sylver
(remember ''Turn the Tide'' this was #2 in German singles charts 2 years ago)

Ian van Dahl
(their song ''Castles in the Sky'' was #3 in UK charts 2 years ago,
they've also won TopOfThePops award for BEST DANCE ARTIST)

Dee Dee
(hits: ''Forever'', ''The one'')

Jessy
(hits: ''Look at me now'', ''Head over heels'')

Kira
(huge hit: I''LL BE YOUR ANGEL; charted @#9 in UK charts)


Flemish artists rule dance charts all around the world!!!
Most of them are signed to USlabel called ROBBINS ENT:

http://www.robbinsent.com/
Fredrik from Norway   Monday, January 24, 2005, 04:07 GMT
Well, that is good for Flanders! But have these people developed Flemish culture or a typical Flemish sound and style? Have they added anything to the European heritage? (Hehe, I know I am evil know, sorry! I just want to be a bit advocatus diaboli...)
Fredrik from Norway   Monday, January 24, 2005, 04:10 GMT
It seems, that after 1600, the Southern Low Countries turned as unimaginitive as their nobility, the most boring nobility in all Europe. Was it the fault of the Spanish and the Austrians or was it the deep split?
Jordi   Monday, January 24, 2005, 05:20 GMT
Should we ask for a list of Norwegians? If you want I give you a list of Catalans (the Spanish list would be much longer). I'm sure Belgium and Norway gave a lot to the world. The only problem is I don't know enough about Belgium culture to give a list.
Anyway the difference is mainly between southern and northern Europe (who's being advocatus diaboli now? As a matter of fact a Latin expression, which Odin never used.)
In Spanish we say "las comparaciones son siempre odiosas". "Comparisons are always hateful." ;-)
Long live Norway! Long live Flanders and Wallonia!
Satan   Monday, January 24, 2005, 05:31 GMT
Go ahead, ask away.
Trepandoo   Monday, January 24, 2005, 07:32 GMT
We hope, Brussels will become the capital of European Norway as well :)
What's seems to be the problem concerning your (not) enterning the European Union?

Do you speak Nynorsk?
Easterner   Monday, January 24, 2005, 09:20 GMT
MusicLover,

I would also add Vaya Con Díos (with singer Dani Klein) to your list. They are also Flemish-Belgian, and as I know, they also used to top the charts (I like their temperamental music regardless if they did or not). On the other hand, I can see there are quite a few Belgians (Walloons or Bruxellois?) among the upcoming generation of French actors. But I am not sure if we can speak about a distinctive Belgian culture (with a definite "couleur locale"): it seems that the Walloon culture at least is part of a more universal French culture, rather than a separate offshoot, while Flemish culture (as much as i know of it) seems to be more distinct from the Dutch. At any rate, I realise a difference between 16-17th century Dutch and Flemish painting, despite the similarities: the latter is usually more lively and animated (see Rubens or the Brueghels), while the Dutch are somewhat more inward-looking and thoughtful (witness Rembrandt or Vermeer).
Fredrik from Norway   Monday, January 24, 2005, 14:29 GMT
A Norwegian list?
In the Viking period 800-1050 Norway produced and "exported" a lot of culture and technology (although the famous sagas were written by Icelanders of Norwegian ancestry). But the union with Denmark from 1380-1814 paralyzed Norway. Only anonymous folk art was produced. But then, in the 19th century, during a very loose union with Sweden, Norwegian culture exploded in a "golden age":

- The distinctly Norwegian music of Edvard Grieg
- Lots of national painting and then the expressionistic paintings of Edvard Munch (the Scream etc.)
- The shocking plays of Henrik Ibsen
- Europe's most liberal and democratic democracy
- Arctic exploring (Nansen on ski across Greenland, Amundsen first to reach the South Pole)
- Showed the world how to ski (and celebrated it in the Olympic games of 1952 and 1994)
- Lots of other famous authors (Knut Hamsun, Sigrid Undset)
Fredrik from Norway   Monday, January 24, 2005, 14:53 GMT
Trepandoo

Wy don't we enter the European union?

1.
Our history is a history of paralyzing unions, with Denmark 1380-1814 and with Sweden 1814-1905. Norway was always the weakest part in these unions and Danes and Swedes took advantage of that. This year, on the 7th of June, Norway will celebrate its 100th anniversary as a independent country! So, naturally, we are afraid of unions and very fond of the independence we fought so hard for!

2.
Norway is a country rich in natural ressources such as oil, gas and fish. We are afraid you other Europeans will come and take it away from us.

3.
Norwegian agriculture is very decentralized and small-scale and heavily subsidized from the government . Norwegian farmers are afraid they will be declared non-profitable and be shut down if we enter the EU. That would also de-populate much of rural Norway, especially ihn the North.

4.
Norwegian food has a very high quality, with very strict rules. We don't produce very much exclusive gourmet food (except salmon) , but on the other hand we don't have the big food scandals that you have down there in Europe. We are afraid that the EU will force upon us your very much more liberal rules when it comes to adding chemicals to food, use poisons as insecticides etc. And, in Norway, every cow has the right to a few weeks summer holiday each year = the farmer can't keep her in the cow stall all year. In the EU it is not like that.

5.
Norway is a small country and we are used to very transparent and democratic politics. We are afraid of the very bureaucratic and un-democratic nature of the EU.

In short, we are afraid to loose "sjøvråderetten" = the right to govern ourselves (and our ressources). We are afraid of industrialized farming and of forced centralisation, both within Norway and within Europe!

That is why 52,2 % of all Norwegians said no to EU membership in 1994 (and their national pride and we-can-do-it-on-our-own-sense was undoubtedly fuelled by the Lillehammer winter olympics that same year!)
Jordi   Monday, January 24, 2005, 14:57 GMT
Thanks to you I know much more about Norway although I believe Belgium could produce a similar list.
Fredrik from Norway   Monday, January 24, 2005, 15:04 GMT
Trepandoo
But of course it could also be wise to enter the EU (as some 50 % of us think):
- The EU controls everything in Norway via the EEA (European Economic Area), anyway. So why not join in the decision-making and try to change to bad things.
- EU is trying to shut Norwegian products (like salmon) out of the EU market.
- The EU is a fantastic peace project
- Now all the Nordic countries except Norway and Iceland (and the Faroese Islands) are members. We should all stand together, co-operate and promote Nordic values (democracy, clean small-scale agriculture etc.) in the EU.

Do I speak Nynorsk? Well, everybody in Norway speaks a dialect. Some of them are close to Bokmål and some close to Nynorsk. Mine is in the middle. Bokmål is my hovedmål = main tongue (when writing) but I also learned Nynorsk in school and write it well.
Fredrik from Norway   Monday, January 24, 2005, 15:11 GMT
I know several small countries could make similar lists (Iceland, Finland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Ireland etc...but Belgium? I wonder...

The most famous Belgian artists in Norway I think is Helmut Lotti and the Desenchantee lady!